What is logic?

[Little Rik]

There are people who have had experiences they identify as an NDE, despite the fact that they never were "dead" in whatever terms you consider dead.  You have implied that there is a difference between what those people experience and a "real NDE" experience.  How do you know there is a difference in the clarity, vividness or sharpness of their experiences, between their NDE-like experiences and the "real NDE" of someone who died?

As far as I am concern if someone that is not dead say that they had a clear, sharp and vivid experience
I don't buy it because if the consciousness is still in the brain you can not have anything like that.
The consciousness must be free from the bondage of the brain in order to have a clear, sharp and vivid experience.  

(emphasis mine)

You keep making this claim, yet I have not seen any evidence for it.  You don't explain how you know this is the case other than saying that you "don't buy it."  This pretty much tells me that your claim is pure bullshit.  An assertion that you pulled from your ass.  You want to make a substantive difference between NDEs and people who have NDE-like experiences, but this difference only occurs in your "theories" about consciousness leaving the body during death.  Your theories are nothing but guesses that are propped up by your religious dogma.  You have no evidence that there is any qualitative difference between these "NDE-like experiences" and the NDE experiences of those who died and were resuscitated.  Moreover, even your own "claimed" evidence of veridical NDEs is against you in the case of Pam Reynolds.  (And then there's your ridiculous assertion that Howard Storm was 'really' dead, even though there's no evidence that he ever was.  No evidence is pretty much standard operating procedure for you.)  As noted in the quote about the IANDS study above, "The 37 percenters [who had NDE-like experiences] claimed to have experiences every bit as real, involved, and life-changing as those that happened to people during death or close-brush-with-death crises; and their reports duplicate or parallel the same spread of scenario types and a pattern of psychological and physiological aftereffects."  You may not "buy it," but you not accepting that they are the same thing is based on nothing but your commitment to a specific set of religiously based assumptions.  The evidence indicates that the NDE-like experiencers have the same vivid, clear and sharp experiences that your supposed "real NDE" experiencers have.  In other words, even according to your own term of a "malfunctioning" brain, the evidence is against you; NDE-like experiences, G-LOC, ketamine, anoxia and 'real NDEs' -- all produce clear, vivid, and sharp experiences. So your claim that a "malfunction in the brain" cannot produce such experiences is a total fail.

Tell me something Yog.  

How many people who had a G-LOC, ketamine or anoxia after their experiences become strong believers
and engage in spirituality?  

And how many people that had an NDE after they died still keep their old beliefs?  




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