Can prayer change God's perfect plan?

[Catholic_Lady]

I feel like that is answering it though. Let's try this. Imagine you see me grabbing a slice of cheese pizza instead of pepperoni. You know I chose cheese because you're seeing me do it, right? That's God as well, seeing us making our choices. Except that's how it is for God at all moments of time. Not just in the present.


Again, God is not "forseeing". That would mean He's in the present, looking at the future. Rather, to Him there is no past, present, or future. He's seeing it happen all at once.

You are still just explaining how he sees it, not how that allows you to have choice.  We have already all agreed he sees it all for the sake of this argument.  How or where does not matter.  Saying that he sees the result of our choices does not explain how that makes those choices "Free".

(I forgot to address your example.  Yes, if I see you pick pepperoni pizza, that shows I know what you will do.  That does not demonstrate that you had the FREE CHOICE to choose cheese!  Doing a thing and/or knowing someone will do a thing in no way demonstrates that they had the free will to chose to do the other thing, and actually tacitly demonstrates the opposite.)

Hm? I'm not sure I follow. The scenario is that both cheese and pepperoni are available, and you see me freely choosing cheese, therefore you know I chose cheese by my own free will.

Answer this question:  Can you chose to do a thing that has not been seen (forseen, or past seen, or seen all at once, whatever you like).?  Can you chose to do a thing that god does not already know you will do? Yes or no. Just answer this and then we can move on.

I can choose whatever I want. And I do. The thing is, since God can see all of time, He is already seeing me making my choices, whatever they are.