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Can prayer change God's perfect plan?
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan?
(May 10, 2017 at 9:54 am)Valyza1 Wrote:
(May 10, 2017 at 7:11 am)Luckie Wrote: Excuse me but if this is your belief.. Then what do you believe happens to babies (innocents) who are killed before choosing your god? If free will is the reason for all the suffering in the world, how is it so easily removed from babies, or "people who haven't heard the word of god"? Where's their free will?

Not sure I understand your objection.  I wasn't talking about Free Will being the cause of suffering, I was talking about it being a reality of human life.  You don't even need to believe in God to believe in Free Will.    But my point was that if you do believe in God or, more topical to this discussion, any omnipotent being, you aren't required to stop believing in Free Will as the two concepts don't, of necessity, contradict each other.   One's will is free in the sense that one has the power to pursue what one wishes. The baby has the power to pursue a piece of candy.  He or she may encounter resistance, but if they want the candy badly enough they can keep pursuing it.  Eventually, the appetite will subside enough for the baby to no longer want to pursue the candy, either because of substitution or exhaustion, but the baby is always free to pursue that candy by whatever tools it has at it's disposal (crawling, crying, reaching, etc). All God's omnipotence means is that He knows what's going to happen. But he's not imposing that knowledge onto the person.  If He didn't know, then the question of why He doesn't intervene would be more pertinent, I should think.  Generally speaking, the only reason to intervene in anything is to either ensure the occurrence of a desired result or prevent the occurrence of an undesired one.   If you already know the result, there's no point in intervening unless you enjoy being part of the process.

You uhhh. You missed my point entirely. I'm talking about, say, still born babies. Or aborted babies. Or babies god commanded have their heads crashed upon the rocks in the Old Testament. I also put in an example of the Eskimo. Someone who would never hear the "good news" or be able to accept Christ's supposed offering. What happens to their free will if they auto go to heaven? Or hell, for that matter?

I also said that if I were one of those bsbies' spirits and I went automatically to heaven, I'd be amgry for not being able to choose my fate because knowing gods sin of creating an eternal place of torment for those of his creation is plain out evil .

Care to respond to what I said originally l?
If I were to create self aware beings knowing fully what they would do in their lifetimes, I sure wouldn't create a HELL for the majority of them to live in infinitely! That's not Love, that's sadistic. Therefore a truly loving god does not exist!

Quote:The sin is against an infinite being (God) unforgiven infinitely, therefore the punishment is infinite.

Dead wrong.  The actions of a finite being measured against an infinite one are infinitesimal and therefore merit infinitesimal punishment.

Quote:Some people deserve hell.

I say again:  No exceptions.  Punishment should be equal to the crime, not in excess of it.  As soon as the punishment is greater than the crime, the punisher is in the wrong.

[Image: tumblr_n1j4lmACk61qchtw3o1_500.gif]
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Messages In This Thread
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 8:02 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by GUBU - May 9, 2017 at 8:54 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Foxaèr - May 10, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 12:28 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by GUBU - May 10, 2017 at 5:25 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 9:00 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 9:55 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 3:19 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 9:29 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 9:58 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 12:11 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 3:06 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 3:53 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 6:14 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by chimp3 - May 10, 2017 at 6:24 am
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 9:54 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Mystical - May 10, 2017 at 4:50 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Foxaèr - May 10, 2017 at 10:58 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 11:07 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 11:33 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 11:37 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Foxaèr - May 10, 2017 at 11:59 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 12:12 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 12:13 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 1:51 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:13 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:30 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 12:27 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 12:47 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 5:20 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 2:08 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 1:41 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 2:28 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 2:58 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:24 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:56 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 5:31 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 8:05 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 12:05 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 1:47 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Foxaèr - May 10, 2017 at 4:39 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 5:56 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 6:14 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by GUBU - May 10, 2017 at 6:40 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 6:53 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 9:03 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 1:42 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 11, 2017 at 1:54 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 2:13 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 4:16 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 5:41 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 6:08 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 11, 2017 at 6:40 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 6:46 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 2:37 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 6:48 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 7:37 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 7:55 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 8:01 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Amarok - May 11, 2017 at 8:06 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 12, 2017 at 7:01 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 17, 2017 at 9:02 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 17, 2017 at 10:00 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by GUBU - May 17, 2017 at 3:56 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 17, 2017 at 6:27 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 17, 2017 at 10:54 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by SteveII - May 23, 2017 at 8:33 am

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