Can prayer change God's perfect plan?

[Catholic_Lady]

Hm? I'm not sure I follow. The scenario is that both cheese and pepperoni are available, and you see me freely choosing cheese, therefore you know I chose cheese by my own free will.    


I can choose whatever I want. And I do. The thing is, since God can see all of time, He is already seeing me making my choices, whatever they are.

First, you still have not answered this simple yes or no question though you act as if you have. I'll try and phrase it differently. If god has seen you chose option a, is it ever at any point possible for you to chose option b? Yes or no.

I already answered it. You just won't accept my response.

The problem is, and I don't want to say it's a loaded question because I know you're not doing that on purpose, but the question is asked as though I'm claiming that God would be foreseeing the future. Which I already explained isn't how I believe it works.

As to your pizza analogy, this in no way demonstrates that you have freely chosen anything. If a rock is balanced atop a hill, and it seems to an observer that it might roll down either the north or south slope, when it finally rolls down the north slope, did it chose that of its own free will? Or did forces too small too see or too difficult to measure by eye alone cause it to go north?

Now, demonstrate to me that you posses more free will than that rock, and didn't eat cheese pizza because of a similar set of hard to identify at first glance causes, like hating pepperoni, menstruating, having recently eaten spicy food and desiring bland, having a sore butt from a recent hard poop, the chemicals in the water you recently drank making salty food less appealing, etc etc etc.

You presuppose that your free will exists and so think it is obvious in your example, but it simply isn't.  You cannot actually demonstrate it's existence at all! Except through feelings and personal experiences of course, and I'm sure by now you know that does not count as evidence.

No one can demonstrate free will, so far. If you can, get ready for your Nobel prize in physics!

Regardless of whether I'm constipated or not, I'm still choosing to eat cheese by my own will to do so. I could just as easily choose the pepperoni and deal with the consequences. But it seems we're on 2 different ships. That example was merely to explain how God can know our future actions without having controlled them/taken away our free will. I wasn't arguing free will in and of itself. That's whole other rabbit hole.

(EDITED for clarity)