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Can prayer change God's perfect plan?
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan?
(May 10, 2017 at 4:34 pm)Fake Messiah Wrote:
(May 10, 2017 at 8:32 am)AtlasS33 Wrote: We were in paradise; humanity showed an inclination to believing and following Satan over God; so God sent both Satan and humanity to earth; bashing each other until the hour.
Again, like I said before: If you believe God is omnipotent is it not logical to conclude that he could have made an improved human who still possessed free will - one who was more likely to choose freely the course of good.
And, what about the hundreds of millions of living things that died terrible deaths long before humans appeared on the scene?

(May 10, 2017 at 11:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Being omnipotent means He has the power to control everything (within His own nature), but that doesn't mean He does.
Yeah this sounds like God from the movie "Oh, God!" played by George Burns where he admits he isn't perfect. He says he would do things differently the next time he creates a universe. For one thing, he would not give the avocado such a large pit.

(May 10, 2017 at 11:33 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: He chose to create a natural world where things happen as they will.
This is called living in denial.
So malaria virus just happened and we should not blame god? Just like tsunamis that kill hundreds of thousands of people. More than nine million children die each year because of poverty. That's approximately twenty-five thousand each day.

Ask one christian, and you're told they were all sinners and deserved it.  Ask another, and they were special to god and he called them home. Ask Drich, and they must have been evil, and who cares, I got mine.  I guess Sickle Cell evolved to thwart god's plan. Damn eviloution!

(May 10, 2017 at 6:28 pm)AtlasS33 Wrote:
(May 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm)FatAndFaithless Wrote: You can't say that we have free will if we "can't help" but act according to his design.  That's what a puppet does.

We are described as "slaves" in the Quran:

The easiest slave to control is one who is thankful for it.

(May 10, 2017 at 6:53 pm)Valyza1 Wrote:
(May 10, 2017 at 6:19 pm)Alasdair Ham Wrote: No. I'm not saying that free will is the absence of determinism. I'm saying that the kind of free will that is incompatible with determinism is logically impossible and logically incoherent.

And I'm saying that the kind of free will that is compatible with determinism is so trivially true that it's not worthy to even be a part of the free will discussion. Compatabilism is an embarassment.

A compatabilist joining the free will debate is like a dude running up to a bunch of inventors and scientists trying to create a time machine and saying "Hey guys! I've solved it! Time is space-time so we already travel through time when we travel through space.... you're time travelling now just by walking up to me to punch me in the face for side-stepping the problem! Yay!.... wait..."

Tongue


The opposite of compatabilist free will.


All I ever thought I was talking about when discussing Free Will is the ability to pursue whatever it is that we will to pursue.  It's about as simple as that.  It doesn't mean we will always attain the object of our pursuit nor that the will itself to pursue is undetermined, just that we are free to engage in the pursuit no matter what hindrances come about.   The sense of freedom is neither true nor false, it's just a sense of freedom.  It is the constant opportunity to synchronize our desires to our reality.  If only absolute freedom can be considered free, then there is no freedom at all.  Even God would not be considered free because He is constrained by His own will.  

But in the context of god, free will is not simple as that.
"The last superstition of the human mind is the superstition that religion in itself is a good thing."  - Samuel Porter Putnam
 
           

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Messages In This Thread
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 8:02 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 12:28 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 9:00 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 9:55 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 3:19 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 9:29 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 10, 2017 at 9:58 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 12:11 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Drich - May 9, 2017 at 1:57 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 3:06 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 3:53 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 9, 2017 at 6:14 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by chimp3 - May 10, 2017 at 6:24 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Harry Nevis - May 11, 2017 at 10:40 am
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 9:54 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 10:58 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 11:07 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 12:15 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 11:17 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 11:33 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 11:37 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 11:59 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 10, 2017 at 12:12 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 12:13 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 1:51 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:13 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:30 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 12:27 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 12:47 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 5:20 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 10, 2017 at 2:08 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 1:41 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 2:28 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 2:58 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:24 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 3:56 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 10, 2017 at 5:31 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 10, 2017 at 8:05 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 12:05 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 1:47 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 4:39 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 5:56 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 6:14 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 10, 2017 at 6:53 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 9:03 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 1:42 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 11, 2017 at 1:54 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 2:13 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 4:16 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 5:41 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 6:08 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by brewer - May 11, 2017 at 6:40 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 11, 2017 at 6:46 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 2:37 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 6:48 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 7:37 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Aroura - May 11, 2017 at 7:55 pm
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 11, 2017 at 8:01 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Amarok - May 11, 2017 at 8:06 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 12, 2017 at 7:01 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 17, 2017 at 9:02 am
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Brian37 - May 17, 2017 at 10:00 am
Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by Valyza1 - May 17, 2017 at 6:27 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by vorlon13 - May 17, 2017 at 10:54 pm
RE: Can prayer change God's perfect plan? - by SteveII - May 23, 2017 at 8:33 am

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