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Theistic Inclinations
RE: Theistic Inclinations
(May 12, 2017 at 9:52 am)Mister Agenda Wrote:
Neo-Scholastic Wrote:In the first case there is contrition for one's shortcomings. In the second case, there is not.

So God will accept murderers if they are contrite, even if they don't accept Jesus as their savior?

I say it is possible, in theory, but we cannot presume. At the very least someone would have to recognize some kind of transcendent moral structure that they have violated. That could put them, in theory, on them on a trajectory that could maybe lead to full recognition and acceptance of Jesus Christ. I do not think it would be wise to teach that as doctrine. The bible does not give a clear teaching on that. If that theory is wrong then promoting the idea of a 'second chance' would lead people astray.


(May 12, 2017 at 9:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Guys, I get that the bible doesn't go into detail about how things will play out at the moment of death. But if Hell is the constant rejection of God, and Heaven is the constant acceptance of Him, doesn't that indicate that we still have the free will to choose once we die?

I cannot stress enough that the biblical text is not definitive on the exact nature of Man's ultimate fate. It is very general, couched in parable and/or using language laden with symbol and allusion. What is clear is only one name has been given, the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, and that no one comes to the Father except by Him. It is also abundantly clear that all have sinned and no one by his or her own merits can stand blameless before God's righteous judgement.

I hear your compassion and hope for the unbelievers, I really do. After all, given an infinite amount of time and unlimited opportunity surely everyone will come around. That seems to be your suggestion. Personally, I think the case for universalism is very weak although I know David Bentley Hart now advocates univeralism and I think he is the type of deep thinker that should be taken seriously. While there are few suggestive passages, other than those, it seems like that doctrine is mostly theological speculation. Do we have free will after we die? I believe so but that does not mean we have unlimited options. I cannot go back it time to change decisions I now regret having made. Nor can I choose to take medicine I dumped in the trash.

(May 12, 2017 at 9:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: And for people who don't believe in God/Jesus simply because they were born into an indigenous tribe in the wilderness or something and have never heard of Him. When they die and see God for the first time, don't they then get the chance to either accept or reject? If those people get that chance, why wouldn't everyone else?

Again there is no clear biblical teaching on the matter. All we can do is extrapolate and puzzle over suggestive verses. And many have, I think wrongly, presented various notions as definitive doctrines. The most common solution to the "problem of the heathens" is that people are only accountable in proportion to the amount of Light they have been given. For some that may be simply the general revelation. Perhaps that is sufficient. Dante placed Socrates in the Limbo, not a state of damnation but not the fullness of Blessing either. That could be. Or having already accepted the idea of The Good, perhaps that puts them in the right direction and they are allowed to follow that to its ultimate conclusion. Maybe. At the same time Christians have also been given the Great Commission buy Jesus, which seems vitally important. If it is a mere announcement and people can be saved without knowledge of the gospel then why does Christ command us to preach it? Either it is irrelevant to salvation, pushes deliverance along faster, or is absolutely necessary for redemption. That seems to exhaust all the options.

(May 12, 2017 at 9:49 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: One last note on this post: What exactly did Jesus mean when He told us to judge not? It's pretty broad. I think He meant the ultimate judgement... the judgement on the state of someone's soul, considering we also believe only God can make it. Knowing that we are not to make these judgement, wouldn't we assume the best of people's souls?

You need to read the whole verse - “Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you." it is a warning against hypocrisy, not a blanket command.
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Messages In This Thread
Theistic Inclinations - by Adventurer - February 23, 2017 at 6:31 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Alex K - February 23, 2017 at 6:38 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mr Greene - February 23, 2017 at 8:50 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - February 23, 2017 at 11:20 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - February 23, 2017 at 11:34 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - February 23, 2017 at 12:14 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mr Greene - February 24, 2017 at 4:32 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Angrboda - February 24, 2017 at 4:59 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2017 at 12:05 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Grand Nudger - February 23, 2017 at 2:58 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mr Greene - February 23, 2017 at 7:58 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - February 24, 2017 at 10:49 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - February 23, 2017 at 8:05 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by chimp3 - February 23, 2017 at 8:21 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by downbeatplumb - February 24, 2017 at 2:26 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by chimp3 - February 24, 2017 at 6:48 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by TheoneandonlytrueGod - February 27, 2017 at 10:28 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by BrianSoddingBoru4 - February 24, 2017 at 5:13 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Aoi Magi - February 24, 2017 at 10:34 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mister Agenda - February 24, 2017 at 11:13 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Astreja - February 24, 2017 at 12:23 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Grand Nudger - February 24, 2017 at 12:33 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Astreja - February 24, 2017 at 2:15 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by MysticKnight - February 24, 2017 at 2:23 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Jesster - February 24, 2017 at 2:26 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - February 24, 2017 at 5:14 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - February 24, 2017 at 3:13 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - February 24, 2017 at 5:58 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by brewer - February 24, 2017 at 6:17 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Grand Nudger - February 24, 2017 at 2:25 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Astreja - February 24, 2017 at 4:13 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - February 24, 2017 at 6:08 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - February 24, 2017 at 6:12 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - February 24, 2017 at 6:13 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - February 24, 2017 at 6:22 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - February 24, 2017 at 7:22 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - February 24, 2017 at 6:18 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Angrboda - February 24, 2017 at 9:32 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 9, 2017 at 5:36 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 9, 2017 at 9:10 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - February 24, 2017 at 6:21 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - February 28, 2017 at 12:54 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 8, 2017 at 9:41 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 8, 2017 at 1:23 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 8, 2017 at 4:22 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 9, 2017 at 10:08 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 9, 2017 at 10:34 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 9, 2017 at 11:48 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 9, 2017 at 2:37 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 10, 2017 at 9:34 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by drfuzzy - May 9, 2017 at 1:55 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 10, 2017 at 9:43 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 10, 2017 at 9:48 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 10, 2017 at 10:50 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by RoadRunner79 - May 10, 2017 at 11:07 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Grandizer - May 10, 2017 at 12:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 1:10 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 10, 2017 at 2:00 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 2:18 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 10, 2017 at 2:37 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 3:42 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 10, 2017 at 4:39 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 5:46 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 10, 2017 at 11:31 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Valkyrie - May 10, 2017 at 11:47 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by RoadRunner79 - May 11, 2017 at 10:07 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 11, 2017 at 10:24 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by RoadRunner79 - May 10, 2017 at 12:29 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 10, 2017 at 2:03 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 10, 2017 at 11:27 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 10, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 4:17 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 4:22 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 4:49 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 10, 2017 at 5:03 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 11, 2017 at 9:38 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 5:10 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 5:55 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 7:19 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 7:22 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 7:31 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 7:34 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Valkyrie - May 10, 2017 at 7:32 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Angrboda - May 10, 2017 at 7:06 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - May 10, 2017 at 7:24 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 7:28 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - May 10, 2017 at 7:46 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 7:48 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - May 10, 2017 at 7:58 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 8:02 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - May 10, 2017 at 8:23 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 8:27 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - May 10, 2017 at 10:35 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Cyberman - May 11, 2017 at 9:14 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mister Agenda - May 11, 2017 at 8:59 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 11, 2017 at 10:09 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Angrboda - May 10, 2017 at 9:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 7:30 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 10, 2017 at 7:36 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 7:44 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 7:35 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 10, 2017 at 7:37 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Valkyrie - May 10, 2017 at 8:03 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 10, 2017 at 10:05 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 10, 2017 at 10:56 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 10, 2017 at 10:40 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by WinterHold - May 10, 2017 at 11:07 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 10, 2017 at 11:59 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Valkyrie - May 11, 2017 at 12:04 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 11, 2017 at 12:05 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by The Valkyrie - May 11, 2017 at 12:07 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 11, 2017 at 8:57 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mister Agenda - May 11, 2017 at 9:22 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 11, 2017 at 9:50 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 11, 2017 at 10:32 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 11, 2017 at 10:35 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 11, 2017 at 11:00 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 11, 2017 at 11:10 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by RoadRunner79 - May 11, 2017 at 10:35 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2017 at 2:57 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 11, 2017 at 3:23 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Grandizer - May 11, 2017 at 4:38 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2017 at 5:41 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mister Agenda - May 12, 2017 at 9:52 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 10:29 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2017 at 5:34 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mister Agenda - May 11, 2017 at 10:08 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 11, 2017 at 10:16 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 11, 2017 at 11:09 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 11, 2017 at 2:44 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by bennyboy - May 11, 2017 at 2:58 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 9:54 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by FatAndFaithless - May 11, 2017 at 2:49 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Athene - May 11, 2017 at 5:35 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 11, 2017 at 6:07 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 11, 2017 at 6:11 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 9:21 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 9:43 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 9:49 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 9:51 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 12, 2017 at 12:54 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 1:46 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 12, 2017 at 2:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 12, 2017 at 10:48 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 12, 2017 at 11:33 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Little lunch - May 12, 2017 at 7:15 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 12:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 12:19 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Silver - May 12, 2017 at 12:24 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 1:30 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by FatAndFaithless - May 12, 2017 at 1:32 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Grandizer - May 12, 2017 at 12:30 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 12:54 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Grandizer - May 12, 2017 at 1:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Aroura - May 12, 2017 at 12:41 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 12:47 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Harry Nevis - May 12, 2017 at 1:03 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 12, 2017 at 1:42 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 1:48 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by downbeatplumb - May 12, 2017 at 1:36 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 1:54 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 1:40 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 1:18 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Aroura - May 12, 2017 at 3:23 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 1:35 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by FatAndFaithless - May 12, 2017 at 1:39 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 1:46 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 1:55 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 2:44 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by downbeatplumb - May 13, 2017 at 2:11 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 2:18 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 2:47 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 2:51 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 3:16 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 3:36 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 12, 2017 at 2:50 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 12, 2017 at 2:57 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 3:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 12, 2017 at 3:12 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Cyberman - May 12, 2017 at 3:13 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 3:14 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 3:46 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 4:45 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Aroura - May 12, 2017 at 4:21 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Cyberman - May 12, 2017 at 4:41 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 4:43 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 4:44 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 4:55 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 4:59 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Mister Agenda - May 12, 2017 at 5:03 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 5:00 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Grandizer - May 12, 2017 at 9:37 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 9:44 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Grandizer - May 12, 2017 at 9:49 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 4:54 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Cyberman - May 12, 2017 at 5:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 5:06 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Cyberman - May 12, 2017 at 5:12 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 12, 2017 at 5:42 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Cyberman - May 12, 2017 at 5:03 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 12, 2017 at 5:05 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 5:13 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 12, 2017 at 5:44 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 12, 2017 at 10:01 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Aroura - May 13, 2017 at 2:38 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Amarok - May 13, 2017 at 3:21 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 13, 2017 at 9:29 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 13, 2017 at 9:45 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 13, 2017 at 9:55 am
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Catholic_Lady - May 13, 2017 at 1:41 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Aroura - May 13, 2017 at 1:44 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 13, 2017 at 1:56 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Neo-Scholastic - May 13, 2017 at 2:34 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Whateverist - May 13, 2017 at 4:03 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 13, 2017 at 3:56 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Edwardo Piet - May 13, 2017 at 4:06 pm
RE: Theistic Inclinations - by Zenith - May 13, 2017 at 4:21 pm

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