(July 15, 2017 at 5:50 pm)wallym Wrote:(July 15, 2017 at 3:41 pm)Cthulhu Dreaming Wrote: Absolutely, once you factor in the risks that you're managing against. Suggrsting that insurance is about seeing the doctor for $20 is really disingenuous. Priced out an appendectomy, knee surgery, or extended hospitalization?
Do you carry homeowner's insurance? It's the same freaking concept. You're insuring against catastrophic financial ruin, not for routine care (even though many plans cover that for a copay - mine does not).
The issue is the ROI. The expected return on homeowner's insurance is the averaged out risk and you add in the insurer's cut. That's fair. You're losing money in the long run, but you're avoiding the risk. That's how insurance works.
Health 'insurance' is really buying health coverage. If a person who is guaranteed to have at least 100k in expenditures the following year can buy in for 10k a year that's not really insurance. They're buying health coverage for 10k. You can't burn down your house, then go buy homeowners insurance, and expect homeowners to pay for your burnt down house.
So the ROI for health 'insurance' for a healthy 25yo is the averaged out risk, and you add in the insurer's cut. But then, on top of that, you add on even more to cover all the losses that the company takes from all the people with an ROI over 100%.
That's the system. But the ROI has gotten so obviously bad for healthy 25yo, that it's become too lousy of an investment, and they're willing to risk catastrophe. I don't think this is up for debate. It's said over and over on the news that this is a key problem with Obamacare. That young healthy people aren't buying in, and the insurance companies/govt. were counting on overcharging them to make up for all the improvements for everyone else.
So when I say me quoting the exact numbers doesn't matter, they don't. Because whatever the actual ROI currently is, it's a shitty investment for young healthy people by design, and they are doing the math, and deciding not to sign up.
I'll add, I don't have a problem with health coverage rather than insurance. I was with Bernie on this one. Nationalize it, and pay for it with a reasonable tax system. That makes sense to me. Then the burden will be spread in a reasonable manner, rather than putting it on the backs of young people trying to get going in life.
"investment"
You keep using that word.
I'll start by saying that referring to health insurance and/or coverage as an "investment" and referring to a ROI in this context is wholly fallacious because it's not an investment at all, not any more than homeowner's insurance is. You know what, it's really difficult to even find a handle on your position to respond to when you get it that fucking wrong out of the gate. I'm not going to bother, except to say it's not exactly rocket science as to why young people tend to not buy insurance both pre- and post- ACA: because they would rather spend it elsewhere, and young people tend to think bad, financially ruinous things won't happen to them.
