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Would it be worth it?
#17
RE: Would it be worth it?
(July 20, 2017 at 11:34 pm)*Deidre* Wrote: There would be no personal growth if we lived in a utopia. While it seems like it would be an improvement, to remove suffering basically out of the human condition, it would actually create new problems, because you can't grow without adversity. (unfortunately)
I can't agree with you on this one, D.

Here's the current situation visualized as a spectrum of pain vs pleasure:

Abject misery <==== Mild negatives <=== Neither here or there ====> Niceness ===> Ecstasy

Here's the same thing without the suffering:

Neither here or there <==== Niceness ===> Ecstasy

There's still contrast, still "learning opportunities". But no suffering.

Besides, this assumes that the ONLY possible way to "grow" (learn, whatever) is via contrasting experiences of more or less pleasure (currently, with the extreme of suffering and want on the low end). It ignores that learning also comes by pursuing and integrating new knowledge / information / data.

The notion that suffering somehow provides regrettably necessary perspective to enable "growth" or to give meaning to pleasure, is in my view incorrect. I regard suffering as always diminishing the sufferer, in and of itself. Sure, you can make lemonade out of lemons, overcome, etc., but that still takes nonzero effort that could be better used for other things.

Your view is common, and may even be a majority view, at least in general terms, but I see it as a failure of imagination caused by us being so inured to human suffering as a "given".

We cannot afford to accept human suffering or take excuses not to work against it. In the extreme, the view of suffering as necessity does provoke some people to be unconcerned about it and even to take the extreme view (though I very much doubt you would personally) that suffering is as often as not, and maybe all the time, the fault of the sufferer. As such I also see it as a potentially dangerous ideation.
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Messages In This Thread
Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 20, 2017 at 11:05 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by vorlon13 - July 20, 2017 at 11:19 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 20, 2017 at 11:21 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by vorlon13 - July 20, 2017 at 11:27 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 20, 2017 at 11:31 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by *Deidre* - July 20, 2017 at 11:34 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 21, 2017 at 12:32 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by *Deidre* - July 21, 2017 at 8:28 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 21, 2017 at 12:24 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by *Deidre* - July 21, 2017 at 12:29 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by ignoramus - July 20, 2017 at 11:44 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Mister Agenda - July 21, 2017 at 10:25 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Cyberman - July 26, 2017 at 11:02 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Silver - July 26, 2017 at 11:44 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 26, 2017 at 11:53 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 21, 2017 at 10:28 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Silver - July 21, 2017 at 10:28 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 21, 2017 at 10:31 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Mister Agenda - July 21, 2017 at 10:36 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Silver - July 21, 2017 at 10:43 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 21, 2017 at 10:52 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 21, 2017 at 12:36 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 21, 2017 at 4:03 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by *Deidre* - July 21, 2017 at 1:08 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Court Jester - July 21, 2017 at 2:42 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 22, 2017 at 6:57 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 22, 2017 at 10:38 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 22, 2017 at 5:21 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Wyrd of Gawd - July 25, 2017 at 10:52 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 25, 2017 at 11:38 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 26, 2017 at 9:43 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 26, 2017 at 11:43 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Court Jester - July 22, 2017 at 9:22 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 23, 2017 at 1:39 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by *Deidre* - July 21, 2017 at 4:04 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 21, 2017 at 4:09 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Cyberman - July 26, 2017 at 2:24 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 26, 2017 at 3:27 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Dropship - July 29, 2017 at 1:41 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Cyberman - July 29, 2017 at 5:48 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 29, 2017 at 9:58 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Losty - July 29, 2017 at 7:57 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Edwardo Piet - July 29, 2017 at 9:50 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 29, 2017 at 12:19 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 29, 2017 at 1:38 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 29, 2017 at 5:44 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 30, 2017 at 2:26 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Losty - July 30, 2017 at 2:50 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 30, 2017 at 3:21 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Losty - July 30, 2017 at 7:01 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 30, 2017 at 10:16 am
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 30, 2017 at 12:04 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by mordant - July 30, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: Would it be worth it? - by Astonished - July 30, 2017 at 2:04 pm

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