Justice: Is it really worth it?

[Polaris]

Yes there is already a thread about Justice on the Christianity section, but that has just become a pissing contest and I would rather take the issue of religion out of the equation anyway.

Since many atheists do not believe in an afterlife or a justice outside the realm of the physical, do you desire to have justice carried out in this lifetime or are you content to not pursue justice in all cases?

I am asking this because I see one of the root causes of the Invasion of Iraq was a desire to bring about justice (as well as getting oil) against Saddam Hussein (later it was found he was much worse than we had earlier thought...the gassing of the Kurds after the Persian Gulf War), but that ultimately lead to the death of more than one hundred thousand Iraqis. I personally do not think carrying out justice at such high a price is ever worth it....sometimes it is best to just move on IMO.

[cratehorus]

are you content to not pursue justice in all cases?

Yes?

[KnockEmOuttt]

Justice is relative. Do you mean justice in the eyes of the law, social justice, personal justice? Justice in the eyes of the law, I think that should be pursued thoroughly. Social justice? Yes I think it's good to do right by others, as it's the only way society can really move forward and mankind can progress. Personal justice is a whole different thing. Sometimes, yes it's worth it. Otherwise somethings should just be left in the past. This isn't really so much an atheism question once you take religion out of it, it's more a philosophy thing.

[Polaris]

Justice is relative. Do you mean justice in the eyes of the law, social justice, personal justice? Justice in the eyes of the law, I think that should be pursued thoroughly. Social justice? Yes I think it's good to do right by others, as it's the only way society can really move forward and mankind can progress. Personal justice is a whole different thing. Sometimes, yes it's worth it. Otherwise somethings should just be left in the past. This isn't really so much an atheism question once you take religion out of it, it's more a philosophy thing.

Legem terrae (lex terrae is more proper but does not sound as cool)...the law of the land. Social justice in a way has become the law of the land IMO.

[KnockEmOuttt]

Justice is relative. Do you mean justice in the eyes of the law, social justice, personal justice? Justice in the eyes of the law, I think that should be pursued thoroughly. Social justice? Yes I think it's good to do right by others, as it's the only way society can really move forward and mankind can progress. Personal justice is a whole different thing. Sometimes, yes it's worth it. Otherwise somethings should just be left in the past. This isn't really so much an atheism question once you take religion out of it, it's more a philosophy thing.

Legem terrae (lex terrae is more proper but does not sound as cool)...the law of the land. Social justice in a way has become the law of the land IMO.

I don't know how it is so much in other countries, but it's certainly heading there in America.

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But then to better answer your question, yeah I believe the law should be followed (so long as it doesn't infringe on your rights, or if not following the law isn't going to hurt anyone......teehee) and legal justice should be pursued.

[Tempus]

I've got better things to do than seek justice, which, it seems to me, is a way of getting legalised revenge. I'm more interested in trying to fix the here and now rather than rounding up some 85 year old war criminal. In my personal life I tend to let things go unless it's going to continue adversely affecting me. Justice is about giving people what they deserve, which, to me, is an idiotic concept. I don't want mass murderers locked up because they 'deserve' it, I want them locked up so they can't kill anyone else. I guess my answer to your question would be this: I seek to increase happiness, not justice. The two don't always agree.

[Erinome]

Justice is merely glorified revenge. There is no possible way true justice could've ever been served to Saddam for what he did. He was hanged, right? You call that justice? I call it exterminating the problem so that it doesn't continue. Some people are so heinous that no punishment would be great enough.

Maybe the thought of an eternal punishment in the afterlife was conceived by people who were victims of one of those kind of people. Emotions intensify the imagination.

[Oldandeasilyconfused]

One of the root causes of the Invasion of Iraq was a desire to bring about justice

Of course you do ,but I don't. Justice had nothing whatsoever to do with the invasion of Iraq. THE reason was the perceived best interest of the United States. When lining up cannon fodder,politicians invariably claim a non existent moral high ground. The invasion of Iraq was made possible by the collective US nervous breakdown and lust for vengeance caused by the 9/11 attacks.

Wars are never just and never fought on moral principle, regardless of what sophists such as Augustine of Hippo might have claimed. Wars are always fought for one or both of two reasons; to take something the other chap has or to stop the other chap from taking something you have. The innate xenophobia,greed,aggression and stupidity of humans beings makes it easy for us to kill each other. We never have the slightest problem coming up with or believing some humbug justification,such ;as 'justice', democracy' or any one of a thousand god

Since many atheists do not believe in an afterlife or a justice outside the realm of the physical, do you desire to have justice carried out in this lifetime

Atheism has no position on any issue apart from the existence of God(s)

"Justice' is a vague term,to me, almost meaningless in my daily life. Nor have I ever seen such a thing as "a justice system" (using 'justice' to mean an impartial ,consistent and efficient system of judgment/punishment/compensation.)

All I've ever seen are deeply flawed legal systems in which justice is sometimes done through happy accident, but not through design. The purpose of the law is to maintain order by maintaining the status quo.

s.

[FallentoReason]

I think justice is important. It reminds us that actions have consequences and thus keeps society functioning as best as it can. On a bit of a tangent, I also value justice because I see it as something that's rather noble. This view may or may not have come from comic book superheroes.. hehe.

[Colanth]

I am asking this because I see one of the root causes of the Invasion of Iraq was a desire to bring about justice (as well as getting oil) against Saddam Hussein (later it was found he was much worse than we had earlier thought...the gassing of the Kurds after the Persian Gulf War)

False premise, so the conclusion is useless.

1) The Bush campaign, long before 1999, had decided to invade Iraq.

2) The ostensible reason in 2003, even though the administration had been given evidence that it was false, was that Hussein had a stockpile (in 2003) of WMDs.

3) We were perfectly okay with his gassing of the Kurds - as long as he was our puppet. As we were with almost all dictators we were "running" in the latter half of the 20th century. We not only didn't complain about their barbarity, we supplied them with the means to carry it out. We only complained when they went against our interests. We never complained when they killed their own people.

Justice? That would be bringing the Bush administration to task (legally, as in LONG prison sentences) for the unwarranted invasion of a sovereign nation.

Am I in favor of such justice? Certainly. Without the threat of punishment we become a complete anarchy, with everyone doing what he wants, regardless of any "rights" anyone else may claim (unless he can personally enforce them). Even 30,000 years ago we were more civilized than that.