Moral Nihilism

[Sam]

Here then is the (admittedly rough-and-ready) argument:

1. Atheism (Not quite, atheism posits only a lack of belief in gods. I think you mean evoloutionary theory?) posits that human life is the product of blind, purposeless, natural forces.

Your assertion that natural forces are intrinsicly purposeless has no foundation, who are you to dictate that a life brought about by evoloution has any less purpose than your own? I assume your saying that your purpose is to serve and one day be with God? I would consider an atheists pursuit of scientific and personal truths much more meaningfull regardless of the fact that when we die we cease to exist, at least that life would contribute something of use to furture generations.

2. Anything which is the product of blind, purposeless forces by definition has no purpose.

Again, there is no basis for that ... simply saying that "by definition" isn't enough! Just because existence stems from something other than a creator God DOES NOT make it purposeless, our purpose simply fills a smaller time frame (i.e. our lives)

3. Therefore human life has no purpose.

In line with my arguments above I think your only guide for this is the fact that you draw your purpose from your religion, It seems a little arrogant to therefore assume you can force it on those who don't share it.

4. Moral values are a component of human life.

Whoo hoo ... Got one right

5. Therefore moral values have no purpose.

Moral values do have a purpose in any human life, atheist or not I think this horse has been beaten to death in this thread so I won't reiterate but simply do you really need an all powerfull parent figure giving you a simple yey or ney before you can judge right and wrong? of course not.

6. Nihilism posits that life is without meaning or purpose and that values do not exist.

Fair enough.

7. Regarding the meaning or purpose of human life and moral values, both atheism and nihilism are linguistic tokens describing the same conclusion: human life and moral values have no meaning or purpose.

Again atheism and nihlism are two seperate entities, you fundamentally flawed assumption is that all atheist believe in evoloutionary theory which is the crux of your entire argument.

So we’re back to the original assertion in my first post: Atheism logically entails moral nihilism, yet I have encountered few atheists willing to assert it. Are you? Are you willing to be consistent with your own presuppositions and follow them to their logical conclusion? Do you have the courage of your convictions and declare unequivocally that all of life is meaningless and absurd?

You havent' encountered any atheists willing to admit this because it's absurd, I am consistent with my belief that there is no god and also my knowledge of evolution but the logical conclusion I reach are far different from your own ... let me "Connect the dots" for you; I believe that my existence is an astonishing occurence, I believe my life should be devoted to understanding the things around me, I believe that all humans should be held to a higher moral standard than those flaunted by religion and that such a standard should be based on our ingrained sense of right and wrong as a species and I certainly DO NOT believe that all life is meaningless/purposeless/absurd just because I have no creator God in my life against who I validate everything.

you further implied that your entire personal moral construct was a result of your religion which a) suggests your moral compass may be skewed on infanticide/just punishment

Skewed by what standard? But you're jumping ahead here, I'm trying to limit the discussion to one point. We could take that up later in a new post if you like.

Skewed by the bible, the "unaltered word of God".

b) suggest that without religion you would have no self control whatsoever.

That's quite a leap.

Not really, I mean your essentially saying that only religious people can assign value to morals and life etc ... and that your morals stem from your religion are you not? In which case without it you would have no morals? and hence no need of self control? - Follow your logic to it's conclusions for me Charles and tell me thats not where you end up ...

The fact is that society as a whole (i.e. the global society) has an ingrained sense of right and wrong, that is why we experience tangible pain/sympathy when we see our hear of others suffering. We can obligate everyone in line with this global trend in ethic & morality ... that what international law is all about.

So you affirm cross-cultural transcendent moral standards? You aren't a closet theist, are you?

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No, I'm an atheist through and through ... and fyi, theism certainly doesn't affirm any cross cultural moral standards.

Sam