RE: I'd like to ask my fellow atheists if they would be happy to learn there was a god.
August 31, 2017 at 4:47 pm
(August 31, 2017 at 2:35 pm)Clueless Morgan Wrote:(August 31, 2017 at 11:36 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: The way I see it, since my belief in God is that He is love and goodness
This makes no sense to me because by saying things like "God is love" you're saying that God is an emotion. Why should I worship an emotion?
It equally makes no sense to be to say "God is goodness" because that would mean that God is a subjective concept. Why should I worship a subjective concept? I understand that you probably don't see the concept of goodness as subjective, you probably think that there is some objective goodness that God... is... but by stating such you are then burdened with having to demonstrate that this goodness you think God is really is objective, and simply stating that "that's how I was raised/taught/what I believe," as I think you already know, isn't going to convince any of the atheists in this forum...
So we're left with:
Why should I worship an emotion?
Why should I worship a concept (whether it's subjective or objective)?
I can agree that things like love and goodness are ideals worth striving for in the same way that I think equality and justice are ideals worth striving for, but I don't need a god to embody any of these things for me to think they're worthwhile, I only need compassion and empathy.
I wasn't really referring to the emotional love, aka the warm fuzzy feelings. Choosing to do good for others, doing for them what they want done to you, selflessness, etc, are all representations of love, and they are independent of having strong feelings.
Cliche verses, I know, but I think these 2 verses define love pretty well:
"Love is patient, love is kind, it does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth."
"Do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you. Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back. And just as you want men to do to you, you also do to them likewise. Do good, and lend, hoping for nothing in return."
As for goodness, you are right that it can be subjective depending on what we're talking about. I think mushrooms are good, my husband thinks they are very bad. I think warm weather is good, other people may prefer cold weather, and so on. By goodness, I'm talking about virtues.
Righteousness, truth, love, charity... all objectively good. As opposed to greed, hate, wrath, etc.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly."
-walsh
-walsh
