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Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues
#92
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statue
(September 11, 2017 at 7:30 pm)Thumpalumpacus Wrote:
(September 11, 2017 at 7:08 pm)Rev. Rye Wrote: We accept the paradox of Thomas Jefferson, still usually considered a great man, even though he owned slaves and helped, in his way, petpetuate a brutal system in spite of himself, and yet, for whatever reason the paradox of Robert E. Lee is too much for many people. I mean, I can understand ignoring Nathan Bedford Forrest's change of heart about race near the end of his life, but Lee?

The reason why they're regarded differently is because Jefferson did not take up arms against his country and his oath in order to defend slavery.

All men have flaws. The difference is that with some of them their flaws, egregious though they might be, aren't defended to the death.

Remember: he did not see it that way. He specifically stated that his reason for declining the command of the Army of the Potomac was because he could not bear to take up arms against his country. That country, however, was not the US, but Virginia. In his own words: "Mr. Blair, I look upon secession as anarchy. If I owned the four millions of slaves in the South I would sacrifice them all to the Union; but how can I draw my sword upon Virginia, my native state?"

He lived in a time where Americans were more likely to consider themselves, for instance, an Illinoisan than American, or at least, consider themselves an American in the same way a German would consider themselves European; this was widespread enough that the whole "States Rights" explanation for the South's secession actually seemed plausible (in fact, the South was strongly pro-state's rights except, ironically, on one issue, and it's the exact one you're thinking of). And for better or for worse, that became less and less common after the Civil War.

I live in Chicago (well, technically, in the suburbs). I cannot remember meeting a single person who stated he considered himself an Illinoisan first and foremost and an American second. Well, maybe some might have said they preferred to think of themselves as Chicagoans first, but only because someone like Dubya or Trump was dropping the ball so bad that we became embarrassed by our own country, not because we seriously consider ourselves more loyal to the Chicago political machine than the U.S. Government.
Comparing the Universal Oneness of All Life to Yo Mama since 2010.

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I was born with the gift of laughter and a sense the world is mad.
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Messages In This Thread
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Tiberius - September 8, 2017 at 9:26 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Fireball - September 8, 2017 at 9:59 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Cyberman - September 9, 2017 at 4:24 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by A Theist - September 10, 2017 at 5:12 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Seraphina - September 8, 2017 at 10:13 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Brian37 - September 11, 2017 at 2:16 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Seraphina - September 8, 2017 at 11:29 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Javaman - September 9, 2017 at 1:17 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Javaman - September 9, 2017 at 1:53 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Brakeman - September 13, 2017 at 7:26 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 11, 2017 at 10:39 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 8, 2017 at 11:25 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 8, 2017 at 11:33 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 9, 2017 at 12:08 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Tiberius - September 9, 2017 at 12:52 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Tiberius - September 9, 2017 at 9:51 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by chimp3 - September 9, 2017 at 10:02 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 9, 2017 at 11:51 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Cyberman - September 9, 2017 at 11:58 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Joods - September 11, 2017 at 9:09 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Aegon - September 11, 2017 at 8:34 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 9, 2017 at 6:15 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Cyberman - September 9, 2017 at 6:40 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 10, 2017 at 4:16 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 10, 2017 at 6:01 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 10, 2017 at 6:59 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by A Theist - September 11, 2017 at 3:51 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 12, 2017 at 10:53 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 10:58 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 12, 2017 at 2:21 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 11, 2017 at 8:53 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by A Theist - September 11, 2017 at 11:48 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Cyberman - September 11, 2017 at 9:16 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 11, 2017 at 12:34 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 11, 2017 at 12:37 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statue - by Rev. Rye - September 11, 2017 at 1:21 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statue - by Rev. Rye - September 11, 2017 at 7:08 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statue - by Rev. Rye - September 11, 2017 at 10:30 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 11, 2017 at 12:41 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 11, 2017 at 1:36 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Joods - September 11, 2017 at 1:40 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 11, 2017 at 6:30 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 11, 2017 at 6:49 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 11, 2017 at 7:18 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 11, 2017 at 7:34 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 11, 2017 at 9:29 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 11, 2017 at 10:51 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 10:46 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 9:42 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 12, 2017 at 11:01 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 11:04 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 11:21 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 12, 2017 at 12:26 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 12:57 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 1:19 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 1:26 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 12, 2017 at 2:27 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 13, 2017 at 4:24 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 7:53 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 13, 2017 at 10:23 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 1:29 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 1:36 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 1:39 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 2:24 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 12, 2017 at 10:15 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 12, 2017 at 3:49 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 4:00 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 12, 2017 at 4:04 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 4:56 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 6:44 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 8:13 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 12, 2017 at 8:35 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 12:01 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 10:38 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 8:47 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 9:58 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 13, 2017 at 12:54 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 11:45 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 1:11 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 13, 2017 at 3:20 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 7:49 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 13, 2017 at 3:28 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 13, 2017 at 9:17 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 9:27 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 13, 2017 at 9:58 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 10:03 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 13, 2017 at 11:53 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 14, 2017 at 12:18 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 14, 2017 at 12:06 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 14, 2017 at 5:44 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 14, 2017 at 6:50 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 14, 2017 at 9:47 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 13, 2017 at 10:03 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 13, 2017 at 10:05 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 13, 2017 at 10:18 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 13, 2017 at 10:56 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 14, 2017 at 12:12 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 14, 2017 at 9:02 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 14, 2017 at 9:38 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 15, 2017 at 1:11 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 14, 2017 at 9:52 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Rev. Rye - September 14, 2017 at 10:19 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 14, 2017 at 7:23 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 14, 2017 at 6:55 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 14, 2017 at 7:50 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 15, 2017 at 12:24 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 15, 2017 at 1:28 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by paulpablo - September 15, 2017 at 1:34 pm
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 15, 2017 at 2:01 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 15, 2017 at 7:46 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 15, 2017 at 8:17 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Amarok - September 15, 2017 at 8:44 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 15, 2017 at 8:48 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 15, 2017 at 9:49 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by bennyboy - September 15, 2017 at 11:19 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by paulpablo - September 15, 2017 at 11:40 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 15, 2017 at 11:52 am
RE: Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues - by Minimalist - September 15, 2017 at 11:23 pm

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