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Why Statues In The First Place?
#1
Why Statues In The First Place?
With all the current tsuris over the removal of statues, it occurred to me to ask, ‘Why do we need statues of any famous people at all?

I mean ok, some of them are quite pretty works of art, but they don’t really tell you anything about history or about the person who is the subject of the statue. Sure, the plaques associated with the statues give you a few lines of text, but that’s not the whole picture.

People are flawed, that’s the nature of being human. Even the greats of human history almost always have some rather unsavory aspects to their character. A statue of Winston Churchill, for example, might cite his accomplishments as an author and statesman, but it’s unlikely to bring up that he was a eugenicist and seriously considered a genocide in Ireland as a solution. Or Boudicca (who, bizarrely, is ‘honoured’ with a statue in the city she burned to the ground) and her phony chariot with scythe blades on the wheels.

Statues - of anyone - aren’t history. They are history mythologized. Why do we need them?

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#2
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
Statues are kind of society's celebration of individuals, basically saying to people "Be like that person and his values" and that's why people are protesting against statues because they are protesting against cultural racism.

That's why there aren't statues of nazis in Germany because that would be like sending a message: "Hate Jews, hate gays, hate everyone."

And that's why during the U.S. invasion Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled down.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#3
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
(June 25, 2020 at 6:35 am)Fake Messiah Wrote: Statues are kind of society's celebration of individuals, basically saying to people "Be like that person and his values" and that's why people are protesting against statues because they are protesting against cultural racism.

That's why there aren't statues of nazis in Germany because that would be like sending a message: "Hate Jews, hate gays, hate everyone."

And that's why during the U.S. invasion Saddam Hussein's statue was toppled down.

But statues don’t completely represent the values of that individual. No one looks at a statue Martin Luther King, Jr and thinks, ‘He was a great man. I’ll cheat on my wife so I can be just like him’, or at a statue of Michael Collins (the Irish rebel, not the astronaut) and says, ‘Golly, maybe I should emulate him by murdering a few cops.’

Anyone who gets their sense of history from statues is playing a mug’s game.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#4
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
Statues of big wigs have been popular for years and years.

[Image: abu-simbel-aswan-egypt-backpackers-main-image-900.jpg]
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#5
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
(June 25, 2020 at 6:56 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Statues of big wigs have been popular for years and years.

[Image: abu-simbel-aswan-egypt-backpackers-main-image-900.jpg]

'access denied'.

I get that they're popular, but - other than something pretty to look at - why do we need them?  Practically all statues represent the ideal of that individual, not his/her actuality. They're kind of like a 3D version of the 'History Channel'.

Boru
'A man is accepted into a church for what he believes.  He is turned out for what he knows.' - Mark Twain
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#6
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
(June 25, 2020 at 6:46 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote: But statues don’t completely represent the values of that individual. No one looks at a statue Martin Luther King, Jr and thinks, ‘He was a great man. I’ll cheat on my wife so I can be just like him’, or at a statue of Michael Collins (the Irish rebel, not the astronaut) and says, ‘Golly, maybe I should emulate him by murdering a few cops.’

Anyone who gets their sense of history from statues is playing a mug’s game.

Boru

Maybe they won't think that because Martin Luther King, Jr. didn't promote infidelity but hid it as a vice, he promoted something else.

When it comes to Michael Collins I don't know much of what he represents, although I did watch that movie about him.

And when it comes to statues being toppled in US they are mostly of those who fought against the US so that they even stand is bizarre because they were the enemy. So one really has to ask themselves what kind of sympathy are they supposed to invoke? Is it that they were enemies of the US or was it because of their stance towards slavery? And people tried living with it but it doesn't work, it's a failed experiment.

When it comes to statues and should they even exist? I really don't care about them. A lot of people likes to grab toes of statues and make a wish.

If they should exist then perhaps they should portray scientists, like Jonas Salk, who were perhaps the real heroes and who don't ever get mentioned in daily lives.
teachings of the Bible are so muddled and self-contradictory that it was possible for Christians to happily burn heretics alive for five long centuries. It was even possible for the most venerated patriarchs of the Church, like St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas, to conclude that heretics should be tortured (Augustine) or killed outright (Aquinas). Martin Luther and John Calvin advocated the wholesale murder of heretics, apostates, Jews, and witches. - Sam Harris, "Letter To A Christian Nation"
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#7
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
I sort of agree with you Boru.
Even though many are great works of art, with years in the making.
But as we all know history is written by the victors and these statues are representations of those victories and hardships.

The fact that thousands of these statues are still scattered throughout America, tells me that they sit well with the majority of Americans who are also Christians.
And which self respecting non cherry picking Christian doesn't love him some slavery and genocide. If it's good enough for skydaddy, it's good enough for us!
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#8
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
Statues don't completely represent the values of the individual they represent, no, but they do represent the values of the state which erects them. If they represented the values of the people, there would be no statues of Robert E Lee.
For what it's worth, it seems like I'm too late to bring up this point about his OP: Whether or not it's possible if something can come from nothing, it's clear that God, if he exists, definitely violates that principle: After all, what is the creation of the world but his creating something out of nothing?


-Rev Rye.

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#9
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
I wonder, ironically how many were made by using slave labor Dunno
No God, No fear.
Know God, Know fear.
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#10
RE: Why Statues In The First Place?
(June 25, 2020 at 7:27 am)BrianSoddingBoru4 Wrote:
(June 25, 2020 at 6:56 am)Gawdzilla Sama Wrote: Statues of big wigs have been popular for years and years.

[Image: abu-simbel-aswan-egypt-backpackers-main-image-900.jpg]

'access denied'.

I get that they're popular, but - other than something pretty to look at - why do we need them?  Practically all statues represent the ideal of that individual, not his/her actuality. They're kind of like a 3D version of the 'History Channel'.

Boru
Aswan High Damn area. Early graffiti.
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