(August 4, 2011 at 3:01 pm)bozo Wrote: I must have gone away when this thread started. Obviously I am pro-union.
All of the benefits the worker anywhere in the world has managed to win has been through struggle and through acting collectively and not as a result of largesse on the part of the employer.
Unions, Strong Unions are vital to stop exploitation of the workforce.
The workforce isn't being exploited, despite your assertions. Exploitation is defined as "The act of using something in an unjust or cruel manner" giving a person a wage they agree to work for under conditions they were informed of is not exploitation, it's the businesses who will break contracts, force labor and lie about the conditions that can be said to be exploitative - all such actions involve the use of force, fraud or coercion and thus the government has a legitimate moral authority to intervene.
And the benefits of unions isn't anywhere near the fantasy story you portray, we scrapped compulsory union membership in the 70s and wages have been rising faster... Clearly not a case of your bald-faced assertion that "All of the benefits the worker anywhere in the world has managed to win has been through struggle and through acting collectively and not as a result of largesse on the part of the employer."
If people think they will benefit from union membership then I would encourage them to do so, I support their freedom of association completely and will stand up for them if any politician or employer thinks they have the right to fire people for joining a union, but I will likewise stand up for people who don't want to join a union but are forced to, or an employer who is told that they cannot freely negotiate with another consenting adult who has not agreed to the conditions of a third party.
Quote:It amazes me that any worker would choose not to be part of the Union,
It shouldn't. Paying a percent of your wages to a union might pay off long-term but for people who have no desire to be in an industry long term paying membership fees and a percent of wages will likely result in them walking away with less money.
Quote:if only for the selfish reason of protection and support if the employer wrongs him/her.
There is no need for a union there, any wrongdoing falls under the jurisdiction of the government and compensation can be sought in a tribunal.
Quote:I support the idea of the " closed shop " where a Union has sole representation rights at a business.
Yep, you're a complete authoritarian! Suppose you run the country and I don't want to join the union, I can get fucked, right? Even if I could otherwise negotiate with the employer for a better than average wage I have to sit down, shut up and let the union monopoly decide what I can work for, right? Even if I am only taking the job for a shot term and I will never receive value greater than the fees, right? Would you even support competition amongst unions? That way unions can compete over the fees they charge, giving employers who are willing to join a better deal.
Your compulsion would squash my freedoms, telling me that I MUST join an organisation, I MUST pay them a percent of my wages, I MUST work for what they decide and I have no say in the matter.
I am against any restrictions on the freedom of association, that includes an employer telling me that I MUST NOT join a union also any union telling me than I CAN NOT work unless I agree to their conditions. Nobody has ANY moral authority to force people to associate with any organisation, nor to tell them that they may not associate.
Quote:I resent " freeloaders " who will not join the Union, not take industrial action when agreed and yet are happy to take any gains made by their fellow workers acting in unity.
Except that's a fantasy, no employer has to apply union negotiations to non-union workers, if they chose to do so anyway that's their decision and thus none of your business.
Quote:" Workers of the world unite! " as Marx so inspiringly put it.
More like "Workers of the world unite or get fucked!", it should be "Workers of the world unite if that is what you wish to do!".
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