Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues

[bennyboy]

Are you sure there's really such a deep concern about negative symbolism?  Might want to ask the natives, my own ancestors included, how they feel about the statues of Custer, Columbus, and Andrew Jackson all over the place.  Fuck it, might even want to look into Lincoln's stance on the natives, and tear that guy's statues down too.

Well, I've got a pretty good bead on how blacks feel about the statues in question.  Being part-native myself, I can tell you about how I feel about the other statues you've mentioned too. However, if they feel strongly about those statues you've mentioned, maybe they should do something too? "I'm complacent, therefore you should be too" is not terribly convincing.

I see two pretty simple ways to completely eliminate the problem of the double standard:
1) Tear down ALL statues meant to commemorate people, with the knowledge that no matter who they represent, someone somewhere will find them offensive.
2) Allow ALL statues to stand: Lee, Hitler, Jesus, Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Yes, but the problem is that those statues aren't really accompanied by plaques reading "This is R.E. Lee, whose main accomplishment in life is defending the Confederacy which seceded in order to perpetuate slavery."

lol I'd be pretty surprised if that's what the plaque of Lee said. Is it?

I value diversity myself, but I do not and will not value voices which actively work to reduce diversity, as the Charlottesville marchers under swastika banners did. If the best argument they can muster is cottoning to a genocidal regime, fuck 'em. Me, I'd rather dress up as a clown and mock them -- because I think that is a great response to them. I have and will stand up for their rights to march and express their support for keeping those statues in place.

Yeah, fuck those guys. But their free speech is an inalienable right.

When did you become such a sloppy thinker? Surely you can perceive the difference between a private home decoration and a public monument, right?
Right?

Sure I do. I'm also aware that the Lee statue was privately funded and the surrounding land donated as park land by a private individual, Paul Goodloe McIntire, who purchased it. He's actually a similar case, because on one hand he was probably a blatant racist; on the other hand, he was a super-generous patron and philanthropist. Should he be remembered for the racism, for the philanthropy, or just considered a historical person of interest and consider in whole?

Anyway, what do we do with the statue and the land if the government is no longer willing to abide by the terms of the donation? Just re-purpose it, "It's ours now, and you have no claim over its use"? Sell both the statue and the land and return all monies to McIntire's families? Does a 3-2 vote by a city council really get to determine how land is/isn't used?

It seems to me that this is an issue of sufficient import to be put to a general vote in the community, that the legal issues should be more thoroughly considered in the courts of the land, and so on.

---

Let me know when a dream-catcher is mounted on a pedestal in a park as a sign of warning.

This seems like special pleading to me: an insulting symbol in ONE form is fine, but an insulting symbol in another must be removed. Are we talking about objects, or about oppressed populations' feelings about them?

But let's stick to statues. Should the statues of every American president who either instituted or allowed mistreatment of the native population be removed? You and I both know that the number of statues that will remain if native feelings are taken into the calculus will rapidly approach zero. We might have to nuke Mount Rushmore.

There's also a conflict: Lincoln is generally taken as a heroic figure due to his actions against slavery. However, great harm was done to the native population under his presidency. Should we officially announce at this point that when it comes to statues, "Black Lives Matter" but fuck those fuckin' Injuns? OR, and this is my position, should we leave the statues up because he was an important player, and make available as much information as possible so that people can see him, and America, as the complex and multi-faceted creature that it is?