Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues

[Thumpalumpacus]

See what I find?  I would assume that since one of the dominant memes of this thread is, "It's their city, if the people of Charlottesville want to remove statues from public space, let them do it," that the people making this claim actually have information that the people of Charlottesville, for the most part, DO want that.  I have to say that given the overall opinion in the US, and given where Charlottesville sits in that picture politically, that seems highly unlikely indeed.  Frankly, I was expecting someone to immediately quote numbers demonstrating that position to be true-- but since nobody has, I'm attempting to get as close to real numbers as is currently possible.

You'd said you were looking, so I said "let's see what you find." I haven't myself based my arguments on public opinion; I have only said that that might be a third way to address this issue, in addition to the two you've proposed. Now, I'm not sure if you're aware of it, but they can actually take the measure of public opinion there and elsewhere by voting. I know, shocking, right?

As matters stand, the city council there decided 3-2. It remains to be seen whether or not their vote can be binding in the face of state law.

As for where I live, that's a pretty clear genetic fallacy.  

I grew up in the States as well as Canada.  I'm also surrounded by Americans all the time, currently mostly black, with whom I can discuss things like this.  But even if NONE of this were true, I have plenty of experience with statues, with cultural sensitivities, and with the idea of free speech.  I'm a true enough Scotsman for this debate, buddy.

I'd say that understanding the society where this unrest is happening goes beyond understanding statues and free speech. It also involves history -- a requirement I notice you didn't mention in your listing of qualifications -- and understanding the views of those who are aggrieved. You seem pretty deficient in the latter and of uncertain qualification in the former. I don't know how long you've lived in America -- or where -- nor do I know your understanding of black culture in America. Everything I've read from you in this thread indicates you haven't learnt a damned thing about the latter, your black friends notwithstanding.

Yeah, and I said that statues of Custer, Columbus and even Lincoln serve the same function for natives-- to demonstrate that their land is permanently lost to them, and that many of the ones most instrumental in that loss are still counted among America's heroes.

Lookee here, the logician is practicing tu quoque. Maybe you can educate us here: which campaigns are happening towards those ends? Maybe you should start a thread about those movements? I'll happily offer my opinion. Until then, this looks an awful lot like "I don't mind statues of people which harmed my folk, therefore you should shut the fuck up about statues you don't like."

Hey, if you're happy with those statues, great. But you've got no business telling others what they should and shouldn't feel. And their opinion means every bit as much as yours -- more, in my book, because the dismissiveness you've demonstrated earlier leads me to believe that you really don't have a grasp of the social issues involved -- no matter where you've lived.

I then said that since there is a clear double standard, we need to find a way to resolve this.  The two completely unbiased approaches I personally can think of are:
1)  Take down all statues.  Fuck them, we don't need them, and every statue will probably offend SOMEONE.
2)  Treat statues of famous people as protected historical artifacts, and just leave them alone.  I think the law in that state currently takes this position, actually, and that the Charlottesville city council had to do some pretty creative semantics to get around it.

Yeah, my understanding is that the law will probably need to be amended.

I've already answered your simple black-or-white nonsense, though.

I'm pretty clear, now-- are you?  Or are you going to tell me that I'm ugly and my mother dresses me funny, so my opinion is irrelevant?

Why is it so important to you that your opinion be regarded highly? Is there a better way to achieve that than tossing about the names of fallacies even as you practice them?