Regarding The Flap Over Confederate Statues

[Thumpalumpacus]

Not at all.  I suggested that given the sensitivity of this issue, the people of Charlottesville SHOULD vote on it.

No, Benny, what you've been hammering on is that the folks who do not want these statues up need to get over their feelings. Would you like me to link you to your own posts to make that case?

So. . . you feel I'm not a true enough Scotsman after all.  Whatever.

"Whatever" -- the last refuge of the thoughtless. You can read what I've written or not as you wish. I already understand that I cannot change your mind. The fact that you simply sweep away the views of those who disagree with you rather points that up:

The hysterical rhetoric that so often follows these issues is, in my opinion, drummed up histrionics.  Overall, the statue's existence or lack of existence, its display or its lack of display, really shouldn't matter as much as people pretend.

You're certainly not thinking enough to step outside your own box. You clearly have no understanding that others may not see things the way you do, and just as clearly, when they don't see things the way you do, rather than address their views, you prefer to label them "hysterical" as a means of, perhaps, not having to ask yourself difficult questions.

It's all good. You keep on being Benny, and I'll keep on replying as I see fit. But don't think for a moment that you sweeping the pieces off the board means others must accept your views.

I would NEVER tell anyone to "shut the fuck up" about this so long as they are arguing a sincere opinion.

Of course not. But what is your dismissiveness if not a STFU gussied up in fancy language?

3)  remove some statues on specific principles-- an understandable choice, but potentially divisive as can easily be seen right now

Nice to see that you acknowledge that there are other views. Of course it can be divisive. Democracy is messy.

In the third case, measures should be taken to assure that the citizens of the city to whom the park was bequeathed actually approve of the special principle involved: in this case, that the presence of a Confederate monument on public lands in a US city is sufficiently inflammatory and hurtful that it should be removed, or placed in a museum which can establish a better historical "context."

I've got no problem with this, although I'd add that when such disagreement compels one side to drive a car into a crowd we've probably confirmed that it is "sufficiently inflammatory".

Is there another standard, above murder, which you need?

It's my perception that many in the Southern states admire Lee and consider him worth memorializing.  If so, then there's an additional question: "Are some values so important to the US that they must be adhered to despite popular opinion?"  In other words, should the statue be removed EVEN IF the numerical majority of Charlottesville citizens don't want it to be?

And that, to be sure, is where the backlash lies-- that Southerners view Washington-of-the-North as overstepping its bounds in determining on their behalf what views should / shouldn't be considered acceptable to the US as a whole.

The fact is that the Supreme Court, for instance, levies unpopular opinions often enough as well. And if they lay one here against my own feelings, I will accept it for what it is -- a government mandate.

Many Southerners love Bobby Lee, and many others understand his nuanced biography, and yet more don't give a shit about him but are rather more concerned about statuary dedicated to him causing rifts. If the South doesn't like "Washington-of-the-North", tough shit. That war was fought and lost, popular opinion notwithstanding.

There you go. . . appeal to hypocrisy.

Maybe you should pay more mind to your own fallacious thinking, then.

Look, there are plenty of valid arguments in support of removing the General Lee statue.  But you've made a lot of points which are invalid, because they are obvious logical fallacies.  If those arguments are directed at me and I notice them, I'll call them out 100% of the time, and you are free to do the same.  It is only by getting past rhetorical bullshit and using logic that we can try to understand what this case is really about, and formulate decent ideas about what should be done.

I have certainly engaged in fallacious thinking here and elsewhere. But that doesn't give you a pass for doing the same, so if you don't want it pointed out, don't do it yourself.

Many of my points are very valid, and you'd rather harp on logical fallacies rather than address those, such as social cohesion and so forth. Don't think for a minute I don't see how you're skating away. You're not nearly so clever as you think.

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But go ahead, tell me exactly how our accurate view of history will be enriched by removing the statue of a historical figure from public lands.  So far, you haven't made this argument in a particularly compelling way.

Yes, because people go to parks to learn history, says the guy who's tossing frisbees that they have to dodge.

You can't have it both ways, Benny.