This Has to Stop

[Astonished]

This is one of those areas where there is not going to be any meeting half-way between atheists and theists. Theists truly believe what they believe so it will be a no-brainer for them to pass that along to their children. They are going to see that as a moral obligation. We atheists are going to see that action as a criminal rape of a young mind not yet possessing the tools to defend itself against indoctrination. I don't think we have much hope to reach a consensus here.

In a perfect, secular universe, we would have laws to protect the vulnerable against indoctrination. In practice, I don't think that is remotely practical. Just as I see free-speech as sacred, I think that a parent's right to raise a child as they see fit will also be regarded as sacred. I can't immediately offer an argument to support that but my gut (substantial that it is in my old age) tells me that this is a place where we dare not tread. We can speak out against it but I'm afraid we will have to live with it. We need to respect it.

All we atheists can do here is what we've been doing since the days of Usenet: Spread our individual viewpoints in the hope that we can reach indoctrinated individuals with something that can spark them to think for themselves. It seems to be working pretty well. Scientific surveys over the past 2+ decades show a slow but steady decline in religious belief in America.

CL, I hope you don't get too discouraged when conversation becomes "spirited" as it has in this thread. Some of this is inevitable when discussing a subject such as this. I can't speak for everyone but I personally see you as a rare and very valuable bridge between two very different schools of thought. You manage to charm us with your warmth and wit while apparently seeing something attractive enough in us to stick around here. I think you are a valued member so I for one would like to kiss and make up. We aren't going to see eye to eye on this but most of us love you anyway.

I don't get discouraged. It just shows me just how narrow minded and bigoted some people are, which is good to know and keep in mind from here on out. Thanks for the half compliments nonetheless I suppose, after continuing to tell me I'm going to "criminally rape" my child by conveying my faith to him.

You're welcome. Also interesting you didn't say 'him or her'; are you just hoping for a boy or, since the last time I read a thread of yours regarding difficulties conceiving, have you succeeded and gotten the ultrasound to confirm the sex of the unborn? Or maybe it's just that lingering taint of sexism the bible contains that says in no uncertain terms you're the inferior of man. Boy, god sure knows what he's talking about, such a lovely equal-opportunity kind of guy.

It wouldn't be half as farcical if you freaks didn't teach your kids a fiction of a fiction. You aren't even being objective about it, glossing over the obscenities, putting their minds through the wringer so they can be happy that Noah's neighbors all drowned instead of being properly horrified. Hell, if you actually DID teach it to them objectively, you'd either end up with psychotic fundamentalists who'd probably turn on you for being a blasphemer, or they'd just turn away from it altogether like a sane person. So not only are you guilty of preying upon their young, undeveloped sensibilities, but you're lying to them about what's actually in the fucking book because you know damn well you can't actually defend it. Tell me again, this is 'the best of your knowledge'. If that's the best you've got, how are you even still alive? Shouldn't you have forgotten how to breathe or thought an oncoming car was just jeebus coming back to give you a big hug?