The Third Hundred Years War Has 86 To Go

[The Grand Nudger]

Apologies for my misunderstanding, then. I see the two wars as pretty separate; the first fought to maintain a Kuwaiti presence in the oil markets (and ensuring low fuel prices here), the second being the tail wagging the dog. We've been at this second iteration for 14 years.

Our involvement in 1 put us in a situation where we were both committed -and- could be gamed in our commitment by a small portion of our own government - and that lead to 2.

It's odd you'd say that "we'd be failing those people", though, when earlier in this thread you alluded to the fact -- and it is a fact -- that our country does not own all the blame for the shitstorm that is the Middle East.

Why would that be odd?  We don't have to shoulder full responsibility, but we do have to shoulder some responsibility.  

It's a fair point you're making about shirking in one sense, but on the other hand, going back to your allusions regarding responsibility, at some point don't the people there have to decide to not kill each other over sectarianism and so on?

OFC.  

When folks don't want to listen, all the talking in the world won't do shit. You and I both know that they have to decide to stop killing each other over what group allegiance they hold, but the thing is, does our presence there advance that cause ... or does it simply give them a convenient target on which they can hone their skills so that when the fighting becomes infighting again  -- as it surely will -- they will simply be more experienced?

People getting routinely shot at are broadly open to suggestions as to how to end that, in my experience.  Sure, they might end up doing shitty things to each other if we refuse to leave.  Imagine what they would do to each other if we did.

In that case, let the flyboys handle business, and let's keep you grunts safe. We can airdrop lots of shit ... MK84s, Snakeyes, MOABs, food parcels ...

That -absolutely- doesn't work from a peacekeeping standpoint.  It's dehumanizing, and the locals don't build trust and relationships with the pilot/drone.  It's a good way to win a war, if you have the cash.....but it's a terrible way to build a nation. The latter is more like high risk community policing than warfighting. Imagine how americans would respond if the police were lobbing missiles through their kitchen windows with drones....all in the name of peace and order. I doubt they'd get much peace and order out of that, or much public sympathy.

That's why there's all the chatter about building a "new army" to match the changing conditions on the ground. The way we used to operate, and the euipment we used...meant to fight an all out conventional war with the soviets.......it;s not really useful in the sorts of engagements we've been getting ourselves into. The all out war mindset breeds terrorists and insurgents. The equipment isn't really designed to -handle- terrorists and insurgents.