This Has to Stop

[Astonished]

I'm not making excuses, I'm explaining why I'm doing it and will continue to do so. Excuses are for when you're sorry. I'm not.

She repeatedly equated my rant against those who willfully brainwash a child in the most cynical of ways with the more passive teaching of it (the latter being the sort I was raised with, and was easily able to extricate myself from, hence my less stringent opinion on that). I corrected her on this at least twice and was ignored on both counts because, I guess, she just wanted to be mad about something. Not exactly her taking a high road here. She pretty much gave me no reason to hold back so I dived in. And like I said, most people on here were making the same point as me but just not being assholes about it. Hell, they even brought up a side of it I wasn't even willing to go to; teaching it as a fairy tail in the same sense as Jack and the Beanstalk seemed innocuous enough to me but apparently even that's a slippery slope. I didn't exactly believe anyone would really be able to present religion to their kids in that sort of way but in theory I figured if done that way, they'd be as critical of it at a young age as I was. Apparently it's more complicated than that either way.

emjay, I get the sentiment behind attacking someone playing devil's advocate, I honestly could not adopt that position because there is literally nothing about religion I find possible to defend even in a hypothetical situation. I normally do my best writing when I approach it from the opposing side of that which I hold when writing essays because it forces me to work harder and do more research and see more perspectives. But this is just not one of those issues, and I've actually found it quite cathartic when I can submit a paper denigrating religion in an academic environment, although so far I've only had one opportunity to do so. I've heard all the arguments, seen every perspective, and it's all shit.

After explaining to you what i meant about conveying my beliefs to my children, you still went on to accuse me of child abuse, accuse my mom and dad of child abuse and called them assholes, and called me a hypocrite, lying, cunt. You also clearly stated you hate all theists.

I can quote those if you want. Now, after not getting much support from your hateful, bigoted views, you're trying to back track.

Because all theists are uniformly delusional about at least one thing, and are collectively contributing to the perpetuation of a cancerous ideology; that's where the hate comes from. Even if you're one of the fair-weather ones, you're at least lending support simply in terms of numbers to the corruption and violence at the heart of it (especially if you're not a non-denominational sect, like, say, a member of the church responsible for the systematic rape of little boys who have yet to face any consequences for it). Those arguments ad populum are a good way for someone to bolster their own beliefs rather than actually take the extra time to question and examine them critically. Maybe if y'all were in the minority, things would look different and it wouldn't be so easy to ignore what's right in front of you.

Your beliefs being as unshakeable as they are in the face of everything IS a result of indoctrination, although it's probably of the more passive variety that I had previously thought was a more harmless type, ergo your parents did indoctrinate you whether they intended to or not (and given your inability to recognize this, even 'teaching' it to your kids is likely to have the same effect, upon reflection). A zombie bite is still from a zombie, so make of that what you will about the people who sowed those seeds in your mind. So there's not exactly much hope for you not continuing the cycle of brainwashing when you won't acknowledge the effect we're all pointing out. Even with the best of intentions, the results speak for themselves. I actually learned something from this thread, that even as hard-assed as I am about this subject, I wasn't being hard enough on it about even the passive introduction of religious teachings.

Here's the thing, though; I was able to break out of the passive teaching method easily enough. So, I would guess, was my mom, but my grandma and uncle were fanatical about faith and I'm fortunate they didn't have as much time around me as that or it might have been more problematic. But at least there's a better chance someone with a precocious predisposition will end up being more critical of or outright rejecting faith when presented with it in a more passive form, so in those instances, I can be fine with pointing and laughing at a parent who fails to instill that in their child, whereas someone like Ken Ham, (and this is where the hyperbole comes, just so we're clear) I'd give anything for five minutes alone with him and a bag of rusty razor blades.