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Miracles in Christianity - how to answer
#10
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer
(September 28, 2017 at 2:33 am)KiwiNFLFan Wrote: Hi, I am a former Catholic who has by and large rejected the Catholic religion. However, one thing keeps niggling away at me: miracles.

I have never experienced anything supernatural myself, but I have heard stories of various miracles happening in both the Catholic and Orthodox churches. One particular kind of miracle that I have no answer for is Eucharistic miracles - the communion bread starting to bleed, or in rarer cases, the bread and wine actually transforming into physical flesh and blood. One such miracle supposedly happened at Lanciano, Italy, in the 7th century. A priest had doubts about the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, and supposedly the bread turned into flesh and the wine turned into blood which coagulated. Scientists have tested the flesh and blood, which remain to this day, and have found it to be real blood and heart tissue. All the Eucharistic miracles that have been tested have been of blood type AB.

How would you answer these phenomena?

Former Catholic myself, but lets not focus on one religion. The idea of magic leading to the seemingly impossible happening is not a patent owned by one religion. The idea exists in every religion. Even Hindus and Buddhists have their concepts of defying the odds. 

The word no matter the religion is really nothing than gap filling based on selection bias and sample rate error.

Once you consider the amount of death that happens worldwide per year on average, death of every kind, the idea that there is some superstitious power, or human like sky wizard or magical luck in survival it falls apart.

50 to 60 million humans die from everything at every age worldwide on average per year. Humans die stillborn, they die from childhood famine and disease. Humans die in car accidents, home accidents, suicide. We die in natural disasters like tsunamis, earthquakes, hurricanes. We die from bacteria and cancer. We die from crime and war too.

Low end 50 million over a decade is 500 million deaths worldwide per year. That is 1 billion deaths worldwide every 20 years.

Lets say a jet with 300 passengers crashes and only 1 person dies, they call that a "miracle".

Lets say another jet with 300 passengers crashes and 1 person survives, they still call it a "miracle".

But lets say you are trying to kill a cockroach with the sole of your shoe and it manages to escape, you don't call that a miracle.

Bottom line is, if life survives it survives, if life dies it dies and there is no magic to either. 

This is mere human narcissism in the form of superstition. 

In reality, if you survive a jet crash for example, countless factors went into that. Pilot skill, plane construction and maintenance, angle of impact, and weather conditions. Same countless factors if you die. 

If you die in a hurricane, it merely means you were in the wrong place because of contitions. If you survive a hurricane you were lucky enough to be in the right place because of conditions.

There is no magic going on, no sky hero pulling our strings either way, just like nobody assigns the survival or death of cockroaches to magic or super heros. Humans are not the center of the planet, we are merely one species among many and there isn't any magic or sky wizard manipulating our survival or deaths.

Only we as a species can seek ways to maximize survival and only we can seek ways to reduce risk of death, but death still ultimately gets us, even if it is old age.

But even more absurd are the superstitions of seeing messages in objects. Muslims have their versions of that bullshit too.
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Messages In This Thread
Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by KiwiNFLFan - September 28, 2017 at 2:33 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by ignoramus - September 28, 2017 at 2:57 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Fake Messiah - September 28, 2017 at 3:29 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Amarok - September 28, 2017 at 3:50 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by beepete - September 28, 2017 at 4:45 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by chimp3 - September 28, 2017 at 5:56 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by brewer - September 28, 2017 at 7:14 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Athene - September 28, 2017 at 7:43 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Harry Nevis - September 28, 2017 at 8:12 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Brian37 - September 28, 2017 at 9:16 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by KevinM1 - September 28, 2017 at 1:44 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Minimalist - September 28, 2017 at 2:15 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by brewer - September 28, 2017 at 6:35 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - September 28, 2017 at 4:41 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Succubus - September 28, 2017 at 5:51 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - September 29, 2017 at 11:54 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Minimalist - September 30, 2017 at 1:12 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by downbeatplumb - September 30, 2017 at 3:42 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Bob Kelso - October 2, 2017 at 11:57 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Cyberman - September 28, 2017 at 6:57 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Minimalist - September 28, 2017 at 4:48 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Minimalist - September 28, 2017 at 6:26 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Whateverist - September 28, 2017 at 6:35 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by brewer - September 28, 2017 at 7:31 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Cyberman - September 30, 2017 at 12:46 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - September 30, 2017 at 1:03 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Cyberman - September 30, 2017 at 10:10 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Amarok - September 30, 2017 at 1:54 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Arsoo - September 30, 2017 at 2:29 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Jehanne - October 1, 2017 at 5:32 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Succubus - October 1, 2017 at 8:00 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Bob Kelso - October 3, 2017 at 12:38 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Succubus - October 5, 2017 at 10:47 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Ravenshire - October 13, 2017 at 3:05 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Harry Nevis - October 13, 2017 at 10:45 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Bob Kelso - October 3, 2017 at 12:55 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Cyberman - October 3, 2017 at 5:10 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Succubus - October 4, 2017 at 12:41 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Drich - October 2, 2017 at 11:47 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by KiwiNFLFan - October 15, 2017 at 6:59 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by brewer - October 15, 2017 at 7:44 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by brewer - October 15, 2017 at 9:38 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by drfuzzy - October 15, 2017 at 12:24 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by vorlon13 - October 15, 2017 at 12:35 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by brewer - October 15, 2017 at 3:37 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by KiwiNFLFan - December 19, 2017 at 5:24 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Grandizer - December 19, 2017 at 5:31 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Pat Mustard - December 19, 2017 at 6:42 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - December 19, 2017 at 9:47 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - December 21, 2017 at 1:04 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by drfuzzy - December 21, 2017 at 2:24 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Nay_Sayer - December 21, 2017 at 12:29 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - December 22, 2017 at 12:30 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Nay_Sayer - December 22, 2017 at 1:24 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - December 22, 2017 at 2:41 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Grandizer - December 22, 2017 at 2:45 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Nay_Sayer - December 24, 2017 at 3:16 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Godscreated - December 22, 2017 at 7:41 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by drfuzzy - December 22, 2017 at 11:42 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Wyrd of Gawd - December 22, 2017 at 12:29 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Minimalist - December 19, 2017 at 10:23 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Ravenshire - December 20, 2017 at 12:37 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by drfuzzy - December 19, 2017 at 6:36 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by ignoramus - December 21, 2017 at 2:40 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by drfuzzy - December 21, 2017 at 11:54 am
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by JackRussell - December 21, 2017 at 4:37 pm
RE: Miracles in Christianity - how to answer - by Minimalist - December 22, 2017 at 12:26 pm

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