Jon Stewart Asks American Atheists About Ground Zero "cross" Y do U Give a shit?

[Anymouse]

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My pagan father's name is on the Vietnam Memorial. If it were in a cross shape or something, I would be petitioning the courts to remove his name.
James.

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Wouldn't you rather petition the courts to remove the cross rather than his name?? Your father did still die and it would seem, still does deserve to be remembered does he not??

I guess I'm confused. The memory of my father would be more important to me than some silly agenda.
I'm with FaithNoMore on this ... lets choose our battles wisely.

I agree on choosing battles wisely. Fighting against putting up a cross in a Christian nation is a losing battle. I point to the VFW's cross on national parkland in Arizona, or crosses on highway rights-of-way for those killed in accidents, regardless of their religion.

Fighting such a memorial at the World Trade Center is a losing battle. This is a democratic nation. That means the majority rules and the minority don't exist. The Muslims, Jews, atheists, agnostics, Sikhs, Shintos, and everyone else who were killed at the World Trade Center will be remembered on a cross, because the majority has ruled that the cross (like those little ones they put up on roadsides regardless of the religion of the deceased) is a symbol of loss.

The Christians behind this design forget (perhaps on purpose) that there was a Muslim prayer room in the World Trade Center. There is also one in the Pentagon, and has been since Truman's administration.

It is no longer just the symbol of torture that a religious group claims for its own, and used against its opponents when they became supreme in Europe. It is now seen as a symbol of memorial of a death, regardless of faith. But those who have been on the forefront of religious discrimination still know what that symbol really is, the symbol of a repressive and evil religious group that would either have you believe, or have you die.

I see no difference between using a cross and using a witchduck or a stake for a memorial. But in a Christian and democratic nation which no longer honors the secular laws which protect Christianity as much as any other religion, I see no way to stop it. A court fight to banish the cross will make atheists look bad, it will not end animosity toward atheists by Christians; and if it does stop the cross from being built it will only increase that animosity.

If we're looking for an actual all-out winner take all fight with Christian followers in this land, atheists and all other religious faiths together are hopelessly outnumbered.

I've been over the fights before I had to endure while I was stationed in Virginia Beach over running a minority religion bulletin board on my computer in the 1980's. I won't go over that again, other than to get out of Virginia Beach I had to volunteer for the worst duty in the Navy (recruiting duty).

A fight with Christianity cannot be won in the courts; it can only be won through education of Christians that at least there are other viewpoints that are protected by the 1st Amendment. That Amendment (until they tear it down) exists to protect minority views, the majority don't need protection. They already have that with the vote.

The twenty-five year court fight to allow the pentacle to be used on Veterans Administration grave markers ended favourably for Wiccans, and created horrific animosity toward us (like we didn't already have it) amongst Christians. Atheists had their symbol approved right away.

I would prefer the VA get out of the religious marker business entirely, and I won't have one added to my father's grave; it would be nothing more than a magnet for vandalism in the name of religion. Those who mattered to him know anyway; we do not need to display it.

When my own time comes for one of those markers, I already have it willed that no symbol be displayed.

So, I would fight to remove the name, and memorialise the person some other way.

James.