(October 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The very reason why we have a debate about whether it is a choice or not, shows, most humans would not have a shadow of a doubt that is evil if free-will is involved.
Your axiom is incorrect. We have the debate about whether it is a choice or not because (overwhelmingly) religious people make the claim that it is.
Also, you must demonstrate the idea that most people would find it evil even if it were a choice. The idea that sexual orientation is demonstrably not a choice factors very little into my estimation of homosexuality's moral standing.
It is ironic, at the least, that people with religious dogma to push are the only ones that have an issue with around 10% of any population doing private things in private.
(October 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: But is there reason to believe if it is evil if free-will is involved, that free-will cannot be involved in it? Everything shows the opposite, what free-will can possibly do of evil, is possible in our realms of human choice.
This sentence makes little sense. But I think I get your gist. You are moving forward as if the premise you introduced is true. It fails at the first, so this is nonsense. Free will or not, you have not demonstrated it to be evil at all. You have merely projected your bigotry onto everyone else.
(October 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: This is the reality. If we start saying well some evils are possibly evil if free-will is involved, but free-will cannot touch it. Then I'm sorry, it makes no sense. How do we know what is evil if done by free-will, is through knowledge of good and evil.
And what is possibly evil by free-will, is also possible of free-will to put in place.
It is not the reality. There is nothing inherently evil about homosexuality. It occurs in nearly the exact same ratio in nature as it does in humans. It harms no one. Homosexuality is prevalent in many pluralistic societies right this moment and I defy you to point to deleterious effects that can be demonstrated by more than hand waving and appeals to your own personal bias.
(October 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: The Quran puts in the worst context possible. It shows it in the most ugly possible picture. A society that practically all of them have preferred men over women, that is not natural at all.
Sure if they remain an unsignificant minority, people can say what harm but Quran shows in a possibility, that society had given in to a over all trend or fad, and had become homosexual.
It doesn't have to prove that it actually happened to prove it as evil. It just shows it in the possible realms of evil, these people were being gay because of social pressure and trend to be gay.
And I can paint an example of an entire society of theocratic Muslims that turn to oppression and violence against each other over sectarian quibbles. Does that prove that Islam is evil?
Besides, you have this infantile and incredibly ignorant notion that homosexuality is a trendy thing, that people just choose to have sex with the same sex because it's the "cool" thing to do. You couldn't decide to be attracted to men tomorrow any more than a gay man could choose to be attracted to women. It doesn't work the way you're purporting it to, and I imagine that you'll stick your fingers in your ears and yell 'lalalalala' no matter how many people inform you of your incredible ignorance in trying to define everyone else's experiences in terms of your own bias.
(October 19, 2017 at 7:02 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: So it shows a possible motive for free-will to make it evil.
And perhaps in minorities, there are other factors then that make it free-will but are evil as well.
To make homosexuality the exception to the rule, that it would be evil if free-will is involved, but free-will cannot be possibly involved, is what requires proof.
Otherwise, what has been stated is clear and this reasoning is clear and sufficient to break the deceptions of secular society and their insincere quest in defining good and evil.
No. You have merely repeated your personal bigotry. Homosexuals have no effect on you, and no deleterious effect on society, other than to be beacons which show that you have bias and will use it to oppress people who have done nothing to you.
"There remain four irreducible objections to religious faith: that it wholly misrepresents the origins of man and the cosmos, that because of this original error it manages to combine the maximum servility with the maximum of solipsism, that it is both the result and the cause of dangerous sexual repression, and that it is ultimately grounded on wish-thinking." ~Christopher Hitchens, god is not Great
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