RE: Al Franken is latest to be accused of sexual assault
November 17, 2017 at 12:22 am
(This post was last modified: November 17, 2017 at 12:36 am by johan.)
I'm really struggling a bit with this one. A comedian is on a CSO tour (i.e. working as a funny person) and takes what was intended to be a funny pic. He did not actually grope or even touch the woman but he did purposely take the photo in a way that makes it look like he was groping her. Funny? Not really. Inappropriate? If she was actually sleeping and unaware the photo was being taken, then yes. If she was in the joke and gave permission then no. I assume she was asleep, but I haven't heard where she's said for sure one way or the other.
So assuming she was asleep and unaware, what it inappropriate? Sure. But was it sexual assault if he never touched her? I'm struggling to understand how it that can be called sexual assault if no one actually touched her. But that's only part of the story.
So she agrees to take part in some kind of theatrical performance in which he and she are to kiss. She says she didn't want to kiss and protested, but then she also says she finally agreed. If she agreed, she agreed and any previous protest is no longer relevant. Ah but wait. When the kiss actually came, it was not a 'theatrical' kiss i.e. harmless peck on he mouth. No no, instead he stuck his tongue in her mouth. Now we're getting into the meat and potatoes of the matter. But here's where I'm still struggling with it a bit.
From what I'm reading, she has said that Franken made it clear he was attracted to her and obviously she was not attracted to him. So she agrees to a kiss and he turns it into an advance that was clearly unwanted. No question. But is that sexual assault? This is what I'm struggling with. Because if an unwanted advance and kiss which is not wanted and not reciprocated nor allowed to continue or progress beyond the kiss is sexual assault then guess what? I've been sexually assaulted and I would dare say the majority of men over the age of 13 has probably been sexually assaulted as well.
I know that I'm going to torn to shreds over what I've written here and I'm sure clarifying with the following won't help but here goes anyway. I absolutely believe rape is wrong. I absolutely believe nonconsensual touching and groping is wrong. I absolutely believe women who come forward with accusations need to be listened to and taken seriously.
But I also believe it is unrealistic to ever expect every person to ask for permission before kissing someone they're attracted to for the first time. And that means we're going to continue to live in a world where people (men and women both) will sometimes either read signals incorrectly, or ignore the lack of signals entirely in hopes that a well planted kiss do the trick. Yeah I know, it never does. But people (men and women both) will always be hopeful when they're face to face with someone they're attracted to. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify anything here. Like I said, rape, groping and nonconsensual contact is wrong. But I've had women make advances which I absolutely didn't want and plant their tongue in my mouth and grab my ass etc. And for whatever reason, I did not feel violated or that I'd just been assaulted. Had any of it continued once I said a clear no? Yeah, then maybe I'd have felt like a victim. But honestly I always just felt like I was in a situation where someone was attracted to me and I wasn't attracted back.
So like I said, I'm struggling with this one. Was it assault? If you say it was then I guess it was. But it just really seems a lot like someone was attracted to someone else and didn't stop until he got a firm no. If I'm wrong and I'm an asshole? Well lets face it, I've been an asshole for much less but there's just something about this one that seems just tad bit like grabbing at straws to me.
Maybe what I'm really asking is do I go stand in the victim line or do I go stand in the pervert line? Because I can't recall ever kissing anyone who didn't reciprocate, at least right then in the moment, even it never went further. I can't swear that it never happened but I honestly can't recall any such event. And like I said, I've most definitely had women come on to me that I wasn't interested in and said no to. So do I get in the victim line? Or the perv line? Because I have to say I don't much feel like a victim and I'm not entirely sure I feel comfortable calling myself one. But I also ain't to hep on going and hanging with the pervs just make the statement of hanging with the pervs. It seems we all have to pick sides these days when it comes to these sorts of things. And I'm feeling like I don't really have a side that care to stand for on this one.
So assuming she was asleep and unaware, what it inappropriate? Sure. But was it sexual assault if he never touched her? I'm struggling to understand how it that can be called sexual assault if no one actually touched her. But that's only part of the story.
So she agrees to take part in some kind of theatrical performance in which he and she are to kiss. She says she didn't want to kiss and protested, but then she also says she finally agreed. If she agreed, she agreed and any previous protest is no longer relevant. Ah but wait. When the kiss actually came, it was not a 'theatrical' kiss i.e. harmless peck on he mouth. No no, instead he stuck his tongue in her mouth. Now we're getting into the meat and potatoes of the matter. But here's where I'm still struggling with it a bit.
From what I'm reading, she has said that Franken made it clear he was attracted to her and obviously she was not attracted to him. So she agrees to a kiss and he turns it into an advance that was clearly unwanted. No question. But is that sexual assault? This is what I'm struggling with. Because if an unwanted advance and kiss which is not wanted and not reciprocated nor allowed to continue or progress beyond the kiss is sexual assault then guess what? I've been sexually assaulted and I would dare say the majority of men over the age of 13 has probably been sexually assaulted as well.
I know that I'm going to torn to shreds over what I've written here and I'm sure clarifying with the following won't help but here goes anyway. I absolutely believe rape is wrong. I absolutely believe nonconsensual touching and groping is wrong. I absolutely believe women who come forward with accusations need to be listened to and taken seriously.
But I also believe it is unrealistic to ever expect every person to ask for permission before kissing someone they're attracted to for the first time. And that means we're going to continue to live in a world where people (men and women both) will sometimes either read signals incorrectly, or ignore the lack of signals entirely in hopes that a well planted kiss do the trick. Yeah I know, it never does. But people (men and women both) will always be hopeful when they're face to face with someone they're attracted to. And don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to justify anything here. Like I said, rape, groping and nonconsensual contact is wrong. But I've had women make advances which I absolutely didn't want and plant their tongue in my mouth and grab my ass etc. And for whatever reason, I did not feel violated or that I'd just been assaulted. Had any of it continued once I said a clear no? Yeah, then maybe I'd have felt like a victim. But honestly I always just felt like I was in a situation where someone was attracted to me and I wasn't attracted back.
So like I said, I'm struggling with this one. Was it assault? If you say it was then I guess it was. But it just really seems a lot like someone was attracted to someone else and didn't stop until he got a firm no. If I'm wrong and I'm an asshole? Well lets face it, I've been an asshole for much less but there's just something about this one that seems just tad bit like grabbing at straws to me.
Maybe what I'm really asking is do I go stand in the victim line or do I go stand in the pervert line? Because I can't recall ever kissing anyone who didn't reciprocate, at least right then in the moment, even it never went further. I can't swear that it never happened but I honestly can't recall any such event. And like I said, I've most definitely had women come on to me that I wasn't interested in and said no to. So do I get in the victim line? Or the perv line? Because I have to say I don't much feel like a victim and I'm not entirely sure I feel comfortable calling myself one. But I also ain't to hep on going and hanging with the pervs just make the statement of hanging with the pervs. It seems we all have to pick sides these days when it comes to these sorts of things. And I'm feeling like I don't really have a side that care to stand for on this one.
