Aziz Ansari Doesn't Pick Up On "Non-Verbal Cues" and Gets Treated Like A Rapist

[Edwardo Piet]

@Thena

From that article you linked:

The people who are worried about affirmative consent standards are typically preoccupied about the people who may be penalized for failing to ask questions every step of the way. What if a college student starts passionately kissing his girlfriend without getting her permission first? What if a couple enjoys explicitly consensual foreplay and then moves on to intercourse without a verbal agreement beforehand?

This is also my concern. That it would be completely impossible and ridiculous.

But those hypothetical situations aren’t necessarily breaches of an affirmative consent standard. If both partners were enthusiastic about the sexual encounter, there will be no reason for anyone to report a rape later.

And the answer is... no answer. And indeed expecting everyone to be mind readers. Whether someone seems enthustiastic or not is entirely subjective. Outside of the other person saying "I'm enthusiastic", "I'm still enthusiastic", "I'm still enthusiastic" "You are not misinterpreting my signals... I am still enthusiastic" all the way.

The proposed solution to the problem is to just reassert the exact same problem. It completely begs the question.

Enthusiasm is a subjective emotion that the other person may or may not be experiencing and which you can only guess with your own subjective and biased perspective. Enthusiasm cannot be objectively assessed during sex. This is why you are supposed to use your words. "Stop" and "No" are far more helpful than guessing whether the other person is enthusiastic colored through the own lens of your own motives and your human irrationality, subjectivity and bias...

We're still left with this exact problem:

What if a couple enjoys explicitly consensual foreplay and then moves on to intercourse without a verbal agreement beforehand?

Because the very next line is a complete contradiction:

But those hypothetical situations aren’t necessarily breaches of an affirmative consent standard.

Wrong. On the exact affirmative consent required that would necessarily be a breach of affirmative consent. Whether the other person is feeling enthusiastic or not is irrelevant. The point is not what they're feeling inside if they can't even communicate it successfully. We're once again back to the simple problem of being unable to constantly communicate every single action affirmatively down to the last detail.

If both partners were enthusiastic about the sexual encounter, there will be no reason for anyone to report a rape later

Absurdly wrong answer. "It's how they feel on the inside that matters. Forget about communication" is not an answer to failing to communicate an answer.

The alternative conclusion appears to be "It's rape if you personally aren't feeling enthusiastic even if you don't even bother to communicate that at all." So basically "If you're halfway through sex and stop enjoying it and they don't telepathically notice your internal emotional change immediately and stop immediately... then they're a rapist by default."

So it absolutely is expecting people to be mind readers.

It's expecting people to be superhuman. And all empathy is is a simulation of what you think the other person is feeling! Exactly my point... we have to guess what other people is feeling and that's completely biased.

Affirmative consent seems like it would lead to more rapes, not less. Either that or no sex for anyone ever.