RE: Another argument for God.
January 22, 2018 at 9:01 am
(This post was last modified: January 22, 2018 at 9:13 am by Mystic.)
(January 22, 2018 at 5:58 am)MohammadAli1993 Wrote:(January 20, 2018 at 5:42 pm)MysticKnight Wrote: Yes you have a problem with a premise, but the problem you have is from you. Nice of you to at least acknowledge that much.
The next question, are you justified in disagreeing with any of the premises? That is another question.
Salam Brother MysticKnight. I'm from SC. Have you accepted my friend request yet. Hope you are well my brother
Salam brother.
Why don't you post here. And if you like you enough, I will friend you.
(January 22, 2018 at 6:18 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: On premise 3, "If the brain is the source of morality and goodness,"-- I don't think anyone claims that the brain is the source of morality and goodness. This statement is vague. One may use a calculator to figure out how much money one has, but (unless one is an accountant by profession) a calculator is not the source of all one's money.
I think you are pointing out that we use reason to figure out right from wrong. I agree with you here, and I see where you're coming from. Reasoning is, indeed, made possible because we have brains. But this doesn't mean that everything based on reason thereby has the "brain as its source". Pythagoras --and/or his follower(s)-- discovered the Pythagorean theorem. Now, he/they obviously needed their brains to discover the theorem. But the theorem is not made less valid because we don't completely understand neurobiology. You can do one of those proof thingies and figure out that it works.
Morality is based on properly basic axioms, like "to value others is good" "loving others is good", those cannot be reasoned but form the properly basics of how we should go about other actions using reason. If you try to reason them, and make them, well because it suits our needs, and suits my needs, you are reducing morality to utility for yourself, which makes it entirely selfish.
Of course, love has to be guided, which needs reason and guidance, to be good, but reason itself needs a reason to justify goodness, and what is goodness but love of all that is good and to be valued, and what is that but God and his light in creation?
(January 21, 2018 at 11:52 pm)Cinjin Wrote:Even I concede which I do not, that some humans understand how the brain works to the extent they can justify goodness from that, most humans through history and today, do not know enough about the brain to justify it can be the source of morality.MysticKnight Wrote:2. Humans throughout history have not understood the brain.A rather general statement that can be shown to be incorrect. Although we may not understand 100% of the human mind, we do currently understand the brain's functions and even what parts of the brain control what parts of the body and what effects medicine, surgery and psycho therapy have on it. There is actually much we understand about the brain.
Quote:1. God is complex
2. Humans throughout history have not understood God
3. If God is the source of goodness and morality, then most humans throughout history have not understood how that is even possible given they have not understood the nature of God
4. If we don't know it's possible that the source of morality and goodness is god, and that god does actually exist, then we aren't really justified in belief in morals and morality
Do you see where I'm going with this?
What you said is all true, and so without a mystic link and connection to the source of morality, we cannot justify morality. God is absolutely beyond our knowledge and without a connection and path to him, we can grasp anything of his knowledge.
I argue further more is that morality itself is complex more then the brain, how we are accounted to by our intentions, and how we inherit our states, this is greater then our human form, it's a reality connection to the seven high realms of the sky and the seven lands which God's plants grow, and in all that, is the true nature of who we are, beyond our physical human form, and in that regard there is no difference between a Jinn and human, we are the same in that regard, but our tried differently, the former given incredible powers and need to be humble, and the latter given a vulnerable weak nature that has to be strengthened through will and relying on the guidance of God.
And every stage of growth is more complex then it's former state, in all that, we need a guide to show us how to act in whatever stage we reach.
