(January 26, 2018 at 12:11 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(January 26, 2018 at 7:19 am)Aoi Magi Wrote: See the point I am trying to make is that religious ideals are not exactly the same as other ideals because with other ideals people are choosing the ideals of their own volition entirely, bad people are drawn to bad ideals and vice-versa, but with religious ideals, even good people can come under the influence of bad ideals quite easily because they have been conditioned to be "submissive to authority".
I would argue that a person still chooses to follow that religion "by their own volition". Contrary to what appears to be popular belief around here, us theists aren't mindless drones. If Christianity all of the sudden states that rape is good and that Jesus commands us to rape people in order to multiply, I would no longer be a Christian. But it doesn't. It states the opposite.
Good people can fall under a bad influence for any reason, bad religion only being one of them. And as i keep saying, it works the other way around too. A bad person can be influenced to do good because of good religion, or because of any other positive influene.
An annoying inconsistency I keep seeing here is the quickness to blame a person's religion for every bad act they commit. But when a religious person is influenced by their religion to do good , such as all the religious charities and church fundraisers for the needy, all of the sudden the argument becomes "Oh, well, their religion has nothing to do with them doing these good things." I've seen it multiple times. (Though I suppose I've also seen "They're only doing good things so they can win points for Heaven, that's it." Either way it's pretry unfair and extremely inconsistent)
Um no, please don't make blanket statements about our individual beliefs as if we share the same views, you should know better having been here as long as you have.
I say HUMANs get sold the religions of their parents long before they can formulate adult critical thinking skills. AND that is a fact for the world in our species history. MOST humans get introduced to a religion by their parents. If you were born in Iran, the probability of being raised a Shiite Muslim is high. If you are born in India, you have a high probability of being raised Sikh or Hindu. If you are born in Israel you are highly likely to be raised a Jew. If you are born in Tibet, you are likely to be raised Buddhist.
When I say, "That was then, this is now." I am NOT saying every theist is a mindless robot. I AM SAYING their logic is flawed and their perceptions are flawed.
I have said, and it is true, that religions WORLDWIDE OF ALL LABELS, point to their charities and good works. Nobody is arguing they don't exist. Theists CERTAINLY are capable of compassion. WHAT I DOUBT, and what many atheists doubt, is where theists think that ability is really coming from. You'd say it is in your religion. Muslims would say it is in theirs. Hindus theirs, Buddhists theirs. I'd say it was already in our genes long before any written religion was invented.
Humans do good, in the same way your dog might protect you from an attacker. We evolved to be social. No magic needed, no holy book needed to explain nature.
