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Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
#34
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
(January 27, 2018 at 5:17 pm)shadow Wrote:
(January 27, 2018 at 1:48 pm)Catholic_Lady Wrote: Lol. Well first of all I was joking silly. Smile

We are actually not supposed to judge the state of other people's souls because we can't read their minds, don't know their motivations, their life experiences, etc. All those things play a factor in a person's culpability and we simply cannot judge that because we don't know.

Okay, but say if you did know someone is a absolutely excellent person but not a Christian, are they hell bound? I'm genuinely curious how you think of this, because you're one of the only religious people I know who's actually willing to discuss their beliefs. Like, in your view, is being Catholic a prerequisite for not burning in hell, or can you get there through other ways? It seems to be an ideology that mandates an enormous ill-will towards other people - assuming that they are going to suffer eternally for their beliefs. Especially given all of the people throughout time, like before Christianity even existed. Or people never even exposed to your religion. How could they possibly have become Christians to earn their ticket to heaven?

And if being a Christian isn't really what matters... then why do you need this middleman of the Church to be a good person?

So in Catholicism, the official teaching on this is that Hell is attained through a deliberate rejection of God. 

The tricky part is deciphering whether someone has indeed "deliberately rejected God" or not. 

- If you are a person who has sought out truth and genuinely came to the conclusion that God does not exist, is that a deliberate rejection? Can you really reject something you don't think is real in the first place? 

- What about the person who believes God exists but chooses to live a life contrary to God's commandments to love others and do good? 
Has that person rejected God then, despite believing in Him? 

- What about the person who sincerely does not think God is real, but who strives to live a life of virtue, loves others, and does good? In doing so, is this person unknowingly accepting God in his/her heart by following His ways? 

Point is, a "deliberate rejection of God" is much more nuances than a simple "I believe God exists vs I do not believe God exists." Which is precisely why the Church has no authority to claim any particular person is in Hell. We know that Christopher Hitchens was atheist when he died, but we can't claim he went to Hell, because there's much more to a deliberate rejection of God than simple disbelief. We can't see into Hitchens' thoughts and motivations. We don't know his culpability. Therefore we cannot judge the state of his soul. And because the Church teaches that we should be charitable and assume the best of people's intentions when we don't know what they are, it is actually contrary to our principles to make the claim that a person is in Hell. 

Personally, in assuming the best, I very much think that a non believer who strives to live by the virtues of truth, love, and goodness, has indeed unknowingly accepted God into his heart in that way, and will certainly be in Heaven. 

None of this is to say that I take the attitude of "Oh, don't worry, you don't have to be Christian because you can still go to Heaven anyway!" The point is for people to constantly seek truth. Not to take the position of "Eh, well... If I'd go to Heaven anyway then I  don't got nothing to lose, so I'm just gonna go ahead and stay atheist and call it good!" There's a difference between reaching the atheist conclusion in a sincere quest to find truth, and just taking it because you're lazy and can't be bothered, which is kind of what I would be encouraging if I took that attitude. Does any of this make sense? 

Here's some additional info in regards to my beliefs about Hell, if you're interested: http://www.nytimes.com/1999/09/18/arts/h...gewanted=1
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Messages In This Thread
Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by MysticKnight - January 26, 2018 at 6:08 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 26, 2018 at 6:10 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 27, 2018 at 8:33 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 27, 2018 at 9:31 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 27, 2018 at 9:33 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 27, 2018 at 5:17 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Catholic_Lady - January 27, 2018 at 7:54 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 5:10 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 12:48 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by LastPoet - January 28, 2018 at 1:03 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 1:14 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 28, 2018 at 4:35 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 29, 2018 at 9:58 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - January 29, 2018 at 3:04 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - January 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 5:41 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 26, 2018 at 7:13 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Mr.Obvious - January 26, 2018 at 6:51 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by AFTT47 - January 27, 2018 at 2:32 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by LastPoet - January 27, 2018 at 7:06 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by c172 - January 27, 2018 at 9:22 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 27, 2018 at 9:28 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by brewer - January 27, 2018 at 9:34 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Little Rik - January 27, 2018 at 10:36 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 2:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 29, 2018 at 4:05 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 29, 2018 at 4:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 29, 2018 at 5:15 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 29, 2018 at 5:31 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 5:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 29, 2018 at 6:12 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 2:35 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by LastPoet - January 29, 2018 at 2:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 3:38 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 3:55 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 4:02 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 4:26 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 4:53 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 5:45 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 6:33 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 29, 2018 at 7:57 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 10:16 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Little Rik - January 30, 2018 at 10:38 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 1:06 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Little Rik - January 30, 2018 at 11:08 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 12:44 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 1:38 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - January 30, 2018 at 1:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 4:55 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 3:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 1:17 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 4:08 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 10:30 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 5:21 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 7:42 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - February 1, 2018 at 9:53 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 10:55 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - February 1, 2018 at 12:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 3:21 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Ravenshire - January 29, 2018 at 10:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Simon Moon - January 29, 2018 at 9:06 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 11:17 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 30, 2018 at 12:07 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 12:19 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 12:40 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 1:44 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 30, 2018 at 2:11 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 2:46 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 3:01 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 3:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 3:33 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 4:07 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 4:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 6:18 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 9:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 3:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 30, 2018 at 4:09 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 4:34 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 31, 2018 at 1:08 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by polymath257 - January 31, 2018 at 11:52 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 31, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - January 31, 2018 at 2:32 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - February 1, 2018 at 7:05 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 7:12 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 7:33 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - February 1, 2018 at 7:43 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 4:37 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 2:28 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 28, 2018 at 4:40 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Antares - January 28, 2018 at 7:43 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 28, 2018 at 9:20 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by chimp3 - January 28, 2018 at 12:23 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by chimp3 - January 28, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by chimp3 - January 28, 2018 at 4:46 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 28, 2018 at 5:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - January 28, 2018 at 9:12 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 29, 2018 at 2:57 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 3:10 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 29, 2018 at 3:25 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - January 28, 2018 at 6:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 1:25 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Ravenshire - January 29, 2018 at 2:17 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 29, 2018 at 5:00 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 29, 2018 at 11:15 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 29, 2018 at 2:44 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 29, 2018 at 5:05 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 6:21 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 8:02 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 6:54 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 29, 2018 at 6:47 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 6:53 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 29, 2018 at 11:17 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 9:39 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 12:03 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 12:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 1:04 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Ravenshire - January 31, 2018 at 3:38 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 8:11 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 4:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 30, 2018 at 8:15 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 31, 2018 at 11:44 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 31, 2018 at 12:35 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by polymath257 - January 31, 2018 at 11:58 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 3:07 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - February 1, 2018 at 9:49 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Angrboda - February 1, 2018 at 7:57 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 8:22 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - February 1, 2018 at 3:39 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 6:31 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - February 1, 2018 at 7:18 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 5:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 7:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by polymath257 - February 1, 2018 at 11:01 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 2, 2018 at 3:21 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 2, 2018 at 10:53 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 2, 2018 at 11:12 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 2, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 2, 2018 at 11:39 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Whateverist - February 2, 2018 at 11:24 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Whateverist - February 2, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - February 2, 2018 at 5:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by haig - February 3, 2018 at 1:09 am

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