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Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell?
(January 30, 2018 at 11:07 am)SteveII Wrote:
(January 30, 2018 at 10:25 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote: To clarify here, Catholicism certainly does not teach that people of other faiths are damned, and that only people who died Christian go to Purgatory. We make no such judgements on the state of souls that way. Though I wasn't referring to Purgatory specifically, since I know it's not part of your faith... just curious what your thoughts were on some sort of last chance after death, once the person realizes they were wrong.

Don't you think if you were born into the Muslim faith, for example, that's what you'd be? Impossible to say of course, but my point is that it seems like almost always it's a matter of luck that you were born into the "right" circumstances, if another circumstance would have led you to eternal damnation.

I am still finding I have no substantial disagreement with the official Catholic position on this subject: https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online...lic-church

If you were born a Muslim and never heard of Jesus, then you are "invincibly ignorant" and you will be judged on your response to what was revealed to you. I don't think this a low bar--you have to actually try. There is room for your "honest mistake" in this scenario only. 

If you were born a Muslim and heard of Jesus and the plan of salvation, now you have an obligation to respond to that specifically. 

This takes care of any objection based on not being fair, or unlucky as to place of birth.

Tim Staples (the guy who answered the question) is a former protestant turned catholic and takes the uber conservative approach to everything lol. I am familiar with him. Nothing he says is heretical, but his take away/break down is certainly on the very conservative end of the spectrum. If you read the actual catechism, it speaks about having knowledge, and purposely rejecting that knowledge. That's the crux. It doesn't necessarily specify that it can only mean literally that you have never heard of Jesus. It's certainly one for sure way of not having knowledge, and is perhaps why it was used as an example, but I don't see how it's the only way. I don't think even Tim said explicitly that it's the only way, though that seems to be his implication. 

In contrast, check out how this priest answered the same question and said no such thing: http://www.xt3.com/library/view.php?id=9728

...In the very end of it, he even says this about atheists: "...if through no ill will someone cannot believe in God, but nevertheless lives a morally upright life then in some way God's grace will be able to work." He then says "Obviously here it depends on each individual and we have to leave it up to God to judge." ... which has really been my main point through all of this.
"Of course, everyone will claim they respect someone who tries to speak the truth, but in reality, this is a rare quality. Most respect those who speak truths they agree with, and their respect for the speaking only extends as far as their realm of personal agreement. It is less common, almost to the point of becoming a saintly virtue, that someone truly respects and loves the truth seeker, even when their conclusions differ wildly." 

-walsh
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Messages In This Thread
Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by MysticKnight - January 26, 2018 at 6:08 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 26, 2018 at 6:10 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 27, 2018 at 8:33 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 27, 2018 at 9:31 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 27, 2018 at 9:33 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 27, 2018 at 5:17 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 5:10 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 12:48 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by LastPoet - January 28, 2018 at 1:03 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 1:14 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 28, 2018 at 4:35 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 29, 2018 at 9:58 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - January 29, 2018 at 3:04 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - January 28, 2018 at 4:40 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 28, 2018 at 5:41 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 26, 2018 at 7:13 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Mr.Obvious - January 26, 2018 at 6:51 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by AFTT47 - January 27, 2018 at 2:32 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by LastPoet - January 27, 2018 at 7:06 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by c172 - January 27, 2018 at 9:22 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 27, 2018 at 9:28 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by brewer - January 27, 2018 at 9:34 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Little Rik - January 27, 2018 at 10:36 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 2:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 29, 2018 at 4:05 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 29, 2018 at 4:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 29, 2018 at 5:15 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 29, 2018 at 5:31 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 5:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 29, 2018 at 6:12 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 2:35 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by LastPoet - January 29, 2018 at 2:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 3:38 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 3:55 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 4:02 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 4:26 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 4:53 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 5:45 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 6:33 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 29, 2018 at 7:57 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 10:16 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Little Rik - January 30, 2018 at 10:38 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 1:06 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Little Rik - January 30, 2018 at 11:08 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 12:44 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 1:38 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - January 30, 2018 at 1:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Catholic_Lady - January 30, 2018 at 12:17 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 4:55 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 3:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 1:17 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 4:08 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 10:30 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 5:21 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 7:42 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - February 1, 2018 at 9:53 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 10:55 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - February 1, 2018 at 12:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 3:21 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Ravenshire - January 29, 2018 at 10:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Simon Moon - January 29, 2018 at 9:06 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 11:17 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 30, 2018 at 12:07 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 12:19 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 12:40 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 1:19 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 1:44 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 30, 2018 at 2:11 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 2:39 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 2:46 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 3:01 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 3:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 3:33 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 4:07 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 4:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 6:18 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 9:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 3:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 30, 2018 at 4:09 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 30, 2018 at 4:34 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 31, 2018 at 1:08 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by polymath257 - January 31, 2018 at 11:52 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 31, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - January 31, 2018 at 2:32 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - February 1, 2018 at 7:05 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 7:12 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 7:33 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - February 1, 2018 at 7:43 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 31, 2018 at 4:37 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 2:28 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 28, 2018 at 4:40 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Antares - January 28, 2018 at 7:43 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 28, 2018 at 9:20 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by chimp3 - January 28, 2018 at 12:23 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by chimp3 - January 28, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by chimp3 - January 28, 2018 at 4:46 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 28, 2018 at 5:25 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - January 28, 2018 at 9:12 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 29, 2018 at 2:57 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 3:10 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 29, 2018 at 3:25 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - January 28, 2018 at 6:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 1:25 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Ravenshire - January 29, 2018 at 2:17 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by shadow - January 29, 2018 at 5:00 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 29, 2018 at 11:15 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Astreja - January 29, 2018 at 12:18 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 29, 2018 at 2:44 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 29, 2018 at 5:05 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 6:21 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 8:02 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by SteveII - January 29, 2018 at 6:54 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 29, 2018 at 6:47 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Brian37 - January 29, 2018 at 6:53 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 29, 2018 at 11:17 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 9:39 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 12:03 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - January 30, 2018 at 12:50 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 1:04 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by WinterHold - January 30, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 1:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Ravenshire - January 31, 2018 at 3:38 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 8:11 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - January 30, 2018 at 4:49 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - January 30, 2018 at 8:15 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 31, 2018 at 11:44 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - January 31, 2018 at 12:35 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by polymath257 - January 31, 2018 at 11:58 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 3:07 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by emjay - February 1, 2018 at 9:49 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Angrboda - February 1, 2018 at 7:57 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Succubus - January 30, 2018 at 8:22 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by KevinM1 - February 1, 2018 at 3:39 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 1, 2018 at 6:31 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Joods - February 1, 2018 at 7:18 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 5:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 1, 2018 at 7:56 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by polymath257 - February 1, 2018 at 11:01 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 2, 2018 at 3:21 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 2, 2018 at 10:53 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 2, 2018 at 11:12 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by pocaracas - February 2, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Grandizer - February 2, 2018 at 11:39 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Whateverist - February 2, 2018 at 11:24 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Whateverist - February 2, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by Cyberman - February 2, 2018 at 5:59 pm
RE: Do I believe Atheists are going to hell? - by haig - February 3, 2018 at 1:09 am

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