RE: What do you think prayer is?
February 1, 2018 at 11:32 am
(This post was last modified: February 1, 2018 at 11:36 am by The Grand Nudger.)
(February 1, 2018 at 11:21 am)Brian37 Wrote: I wouldn't put it like that. It is a placebo regardless. Prayer is one form. You can think positively about anything and do so without any pragmatic data to know you are right. Just like I was "positive" that if I just showed Ann McCarthy that I was "in love" with her, she would respond. You can be "positive" about anything but that is not evidence that what you are positive about will happen or is true. Just like kids are positive about Santa. Many get presents but that still does not make Santa real.Presents are real, santa is misattribution. OFC wishing ann mcarthy loved you won't make her love you, but reminding yourself that you are loved will actually help you to squelch self doubt regarding those who actually do love you.
Quote:I would agree it is a misunderstanding and miss -attribute. Point is, you can be positive and certain and dead wrong at the same time. Prayer only works in the context that if enough people buy into it collectively as a social norm, it can create a collective group. The ancient Egyptians were successful for 3,000 years falsely believing that praying to Ra and Osiris and Horus and Isis was a REAL deal, and that false belief did allow for their 3,000 year dynasty but that still did not make their polytheistic gods true or real.Prayer "works" insomuch as it does regardless of some collective social norm. It's a private act, that effects a person privately. Though, you have to give a nod here to collective ritual which can have a more pronounced effect.
Quote:I don't see how calling pray a placebo is "cheap" because it is cheap. It is because of what you said in misunderstanding that makes it cheap. It allows one to be intellectually lazy. It is easier for our species to buy into a fantasy than it is for us to do the work to figure out what the real observable world is. It is easier for humans to think of themselves as important than it is to face the reality we are not.I think you misunderstood. I can go hoe my garden or smoke weed. Both have roughly similar effects. One costs more than the other. That's how placebo, as you've put it, can be cheap. There sn;t any laziness in the ritual, quite the opposite. Any laziness is in misunderstanding or a misattribution of the effect. Prayer (and other rituals) work because real acts have real effects on real minds. Not because theres a god who hears you (egyptian or otherwise), not because it can make a girl love you, not because you're the center of the universe.
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