RE: Apologists that may be lying
April 7, 2018 at 2:31 pm
(This post was last modified: April 7, 2018 at 2:56 pm by Greatest I am.)
(March 31, 2018 at 3:47 pm)Bahana Wrote: I was listening to an interview with Tracie Harris recently and she stated that she investigated some of the claims of Josh McDowell and seemed convinced that he knew he was leaving information out in his books and was dishonest. Are there any apologists that you suspect may not be sincere and know they are deceiving people?
I cannot believe that believers and their clergy believe the lies that plague all received religions.
I do not want to think that there are that many people in the world who can go into intellectual and moral dissonance and believe in the supernatural.
The left wing religions are not nearly as dishonest as the right wingers though.
Regards
DL
(March 31, 2018 at 4:27 pm)Khemikal Wrote: Self convinced snake oil salesman are amateurs. They're no good at what they do because they're the consumer of their own product. The really succesful salesmen know that what they're selling is shit.....it's that knowledge that helps them to succeed in the first place. They know that their product costs pennies and can be sold for dollars.
We have fraud laws that are not being enforced against the fraudsters.
That may be why we also tolerate liars like Trump.
Any suggestions as to how to get the fraud squads to do their jobs and protect the most vulnerable and gullible of us?
Regards
DL
(March 31, 2018 at 6:00 pm)vorlon13 Wrote: I'd like to think most apologists know when to hold them, know when to fold them, when to walk away and when to run.From a literalist POV, I agree that that is rather senseless and an apologist would run away.
Not too many would try to 'splain something like this:
Acts 26 (KJV)
23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.
As an esoteric ecumenist and Gnostic Christian, I would just throw these out and point out that there are good reasons why the church never quote them and apologists run from them. Way too close to Eastern religious thinking for the Western.
Matthew 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Note that these empower individual and that is the last think a church wants.
Sheeple are to remain as sheeple and not turn into goats, that way the money keps on flowing from the victim to the fraudster clergy.
Regards
DL
(March 31, 2018 at 9:30 pm)Chad32 Wrote: There are people who drink the koolaid, and honestly believe the stuff they're telling people. However it is inevitable that they will find out their information is dubious at best, and either abandon it, or become dishonest. Anyone who has done it for long enough is either willfully ignorant, or dishonest.
I agree and would love to charge one of those fraudsters with fraud.
I imagine I would have a hard time finding a cop to lay the charge since they seem to like to have the Noble Lie that religions are somehow good for us must be maintained.
Regards
DL
(March 31, 2018 at 10:10 pm)Lutrinae Wrote: It's not that apologists "may" be lying. They "are" lying.
So are their clergy for the cash it brings in.
That is fraud to me but the law does not seem to agree.
Regards
DL
(April 1, 2018 at 12:06 pm)Succubus Wrote:(March 31, 2018 at 10:49 pm)AFTT47 Wrote: What's with your focus on Mormonism? They are a tiny minority outside of Utah. Most Christians eschew them. Bad personal experience?
Mormonism is an easy target for mockery in that its invention was documented every step of the way. And yet worldwide there are nearly sixteen million of the dumb bastards. What's not to laugh at?
Given that the vast majority in the world claim to be religious, do you see them as dumb or just letting their tribal/hivish nature accept the B.S. of their religions for the fellowship?
I think, since many were holding their noses to vote for Trump, that our tribal nature was what made many vote against their own conscience and moral sense. That shows how powerful our tribal instincts are.
They are conservative for a reason just as most here are more liberal for the reason of a reasonable tribal nature that may not have overridden atheist and non-believer common sense.
Regards
DL
