(April 11, 2018 at 1:25 am)Catholic_Lady Wrote:(April 11, 2018 at 1:21 am)vulcanlogician Wrote: I agree with CL. Nonhuman animals are not morally responsible for their actions. Humans have a capacity for higher reasoning and that's what makes them morally responsible.
Yes, thank you lol. It is a pet peeve of mine when some people on this forum try to act as though other animals are the same as humans when it comes to morality. It's dishonest, because no one actually believes that, they just like to say it.
(April 11, 2018 at 1:23 am)Lutrinae Wrote: You don't think common household pets don't understand morality? They do. Use a negative tone with them, and the look on their faces will inform you that they understand the wrong they have done. That is moral culpability.
Your bear reference is raw nature. Of course raw nature is going to be different than evolved nature.
Yet, I have a story:
We were driving and attempting to turn onto a side street. We were becoming frustrated because traffic was held up. It turned out there was an injured wild animal on the road. Know what happened?
People were kind enough to help that animal. It was a raccoon, and they're not known to be friendly. This creature allowed itself to be picked up and carried over to the side of the road, since it had already been hit by a vehicle, because it had the moral capability to understand that it was being helped rather than harmed. The poor thing, as well as the actions of the people around, sent shivers through my heart.
I have 7 cats and am an animals lover.
Feeling scared when they did something they've been *trained* not to do is not morality. It's operant conditioning.
And I never said animals don't experience emotions or aren't sentient. That's not the same as having moral responsibility and being morally culpable for actions. This conversation is so silly.
Operant conditioning? Sounds like every day human life to me. "Hi, how are you?" "Good" That's conditioning.
I actually work toward eradicating that conditioning, which I suppose makes me non-human.
"Never trust a fox. Looks like a dog, behaves like a cat."
~ Erin Hunter
~ Erin Hunter