RE: Why the vision argument is a very good one!
April 20, 2018 at 11:59 am
(This post was last modified: April 20, 2018 at 12:05 pm by Mystic.)
Jo, I am really busy these days. I apologize from not responding sooner. You're post of evolutions deals with the origin of value, that is another argument in the other thread, but not really to do with the vision argument.
I will try to explain why we need vision for value which your previous post did address. When you say "amount of love" is there a certain amount of physical hard-wired cells that love? Or does it mean something else?
I think it's quality amount, it's not a quantity that has no assessment. We assess, I call this "vision judgment", and I believe this is a true nature of love. It values through assessment.
I asked about beauty, because I believe every person has a different type of personality that has a shape in perception. The shape is no physical, the form is not physical, the hue of it is not physical, but it's perceived. Metaphorically, we even have a scent, a taste...
When we perceive others or ourselves, we do so in abstract way, not knowing all the details. The same is true of our minds. Are subconscious can't asses ourselves totally with all the details nor can we do so of others, nor can others do so, nor is there a personality way of measuring things scientifically that will awaken to us who we are.
You were saying well the amount will exist, the value will exist, whether something perceives it or not. I disagree, like you can't take a quantity type ruler, and measure someone personality or love.
There is evidence true in the world, in how people compliment you, your reputation, if it's you being true and not deceiving people, there is more then yourself that asses true.
But I'm saying that objective value that you are trying to asses, it's self not a physical thing, and hence requires perception. Your actions also are not totally physical, they have physical aspect to it but also a concrete love/valuing or it's opposite, it has goodness or evil to them, and that value is not a physical thing. Since we don't know the details of that perception, we aren't the source. Something else is given us that reality we try to estimate with our vision.
Of course, you can say, well our judgement is a good enough estimate, to what would be an accurate value if there was one. But that is saying itself there is no accurate value, and I would argue further, without an accurate value, we are shooting darts with no target, while, at least our estimate of who we are is shooting at darts knowing there is a target if we perceive God perceives us as we are and nothing else but perfect judgment can properly give us that value, which we try to know over time.
For the sake of argument, the non-physical personality, let's call it a program. I believe the program is produced by God's command, but you can believe the physical mind generates it for the sake of argument, and that will be the common ground for non-physical.
I will try to explain why we need vision for value which your previous post did address. When you say "amount of love" is there a certain amount of physical hard-wired cells that love? Or does it mean something else?
I think it's quality amount, it's not a quantity that has no assessment. We assess, I call this "vision judgment", and I believe this is a true nature of love. It values through assessment.
I asked about beauty, because I believe every person has a different type of personality that has a shape in perception. The shape is no physical, the form is not physical, the hue of it is not physical, but it's perceived. Metaphorically, we even have a scent, a taste...
When we perceive others or ourselves, we do so in abstract way, not knowing all the details. The same is true of our minds. Are subconscious can't asses ourselves totally with all the details nor can we do so of others, nor can others do so, nor is there a personality way of measuring things scientifically that will awaken to us who we are.
You were saying well the amount will exist, the value will exist, whether something perceives it or not. I disagree, like you can't take a quantity type ruler, and measure someone personality or love.
There is evidence true in the world, in how people compliment you, your reputation, if it's you being true and not deceiving people, there is more then yourself that asses true.
But I'm saying that objective value that you are trying to asses, it's self not a physical thing, and hence requires perception. Your actions also are not totally physical, they have physical aspect to it but also a concrete love/valuing or it's opposite, it has goodness or evil to them, and that value is not a physical thing. Since we don't know the details of that perception, we aren't the source. Something else is given us that reality we try to estimate with our vision.
Of course, you can say, well our judgement is a good enough estimate, to what would be an accurate value if there was one. But that is saying itself there is no accurate value, and I would argue further, without an accurate value, we are shooting darts with no target, while, at least our estimate of who we are is shooting at darts knowing there is a target if we perceive God perceives us as we are and nothing else but perfect judgment can properly give us that value, which we try to know over time.
For the sake of argument, the non-physical personality, let's call it a program. I believe the program is produced by God's command, but you can believe the physical mind generates it for the sake of argument, and that will be the common ground for non-physical.
