Quote:Folks that answer yes to that are the fundies, the mythic worldview that held ascendency for a few thousand years, so it's got deep roots. All the family values, chosen people, respect for law and order and tradition conservative stuff that drives you crazy springs from this world view, as does the us vs. them, in group/out group dynamic. All behaviors that proved to, uh, confer a survival advantage, etc. They got us a long way and they are still alive and kicking vigorously. But the were eclipsed on the big board by you know who:
That doesn't even approach the question that was asked. What is moral truth? Is it true because the Bible said so or because mommy said so? You may skirt around the topic of morality, but you don't even come close to describing what makes it true. Sure, it's an answer, but to an entirely different question.
Quote:Yup, the rational/scientific you know so well. Child of the enlightenment, age of reason, classical age, industrial age, mechanistic, all that. Homecourt for your team, which is why you defend it so strongly. No, we defend it because it's the truth. Well, of course. And it is the truth, except when it isn't. at least when it is. You see, it depends on the context. Which is where these guys come in.
Okay, here we touch on the truth. Rationale and science are the methods by which to come by the truth. It might be true that a person believes in god and believes that god holds the key to our morals, but that does not make it true. In fact, the only evidence of it is that very belief, which is kind of like using a conclusion as evidence. Science and rationale are ways to pick things apart and find the core of it, not just the conclusion. Why are we averse to such things? Why, when someone is never exposed to the Christian god or belief system, can he still have morals that are all about not hurting other people? These questions can be answered by studying human behavior, body and mind. So, we defend it because it is the best way to find the truth, if the truth is what a person actually seeks.
Quote:These are the big three in the culture wars, and as can be expected, it being war, they hate each other, and each thinks they hold the exclusive answer to the "what is truth" question.
I don't hate people for having different cultures. It isn't a fucking war. A war is an armed conflict. I would not shoot a person for thinking their morals are right and mine are wrong. Using terminology like "war" incites drama around a topic that doesn't need it. People instigate this shit by demanding answers about morality and using inflammatory language such as yours. Quote:you can't say an atheist is always this or a fundie is always that and all the stuff you guys love to argue about.
You're arguing it to, buddy. Don't forget that. At any rate, calling a fundie something is typically different than calling an atheist something, given that fundies have a myriad of core beliefs that they either have or they are not fundies.
Quote:All three views are part of development, personally and historically, but since each thinks the other two don't get it, they are at culture war and each one seeking to get ascendency is what it's all about. The particular issues are just the different battle fronts.
How do you ever finish a conversation talking like that? You are drawing lines in the sand that aren't necessarily there.
