Book I - Contra Celsus
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm
Bold added.
Writing 75 years before Eusebius we see Origen stating that Josephus should have said that the Jews got their temple wrecked because they put christ to death. But he doesn't. Origen claims that the reason is that the Jews killed James the Just. Now, Origen would have had to have been the stupidest bastard in the world to lament the fact that Book XVIII does not blame the death of jesus for the destruction of the temple when Eusebius claims that it did. Unless, it did not say so at the time Origen wrote. Even the watered-down variant of the TF which modern jesus freak apologists are putting forward would have served this same purpose but he does not know of it.
It is also important to understand that the watered down variant does not exist anywhere. We have nothing...nada, zilch, oogatz...until the 4th century and then in Eusebius' writings we actually have a couple of variations of the TF but it is there in all its formal, bullshitting, glory complete with Josephus allegedly declaring that (Jesus) "was the Christ."
And poor Origen.... who could have used it to clinch his point knew nothing about it, because he was long dead.
And for the record, I don't know where Origen gets the idea that the temple was burned because of this James the Just shit. In book xx of Antiquities the sole result of the apparent killing* of James is that the high priest is removed from office.
However, in Josephus' Jewish War he states quite clearly that the temple was destroyed because the Zealots murdered priests within the sacred precints and "god" was pissed about that. So he had Titus' legions destroy the temple although they seemed pretty willing to do that anyway.
* Book xx says James was sent to be stoned. Never says it actually happened. Josephus was not one to miss out on upping the body count.
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/04161.htm
Quote:For in the 18th book of his Antiquities of the Jews, Josephus bears witness to John as having been a Baptist, and as promising purification to those who underwent the rite. Now this writer, although not believing in Jesus as the Christ, in seeking after the cause of the fall of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple, whereas he ought to have said that the conspiracy against Jesus was the cause of these calamities befalling the people, since they put to death Christ, who was a prophet, says nevertheless — being, although against his will, not far from the truth— that these disasters happened to the Jews as a punishment for the death of James the Just, who was a brother of Jesus (called Christ)
From Chapter XLVII
Bold added.
Writing 75 years before Eusebius we see Origen stating that Josephus should have said that the Jews got their temple wrecked because they put christ to death. But he doesn't. Origen claims that the reason is that the Jews killed James the Just. Now, Origen would have had to have been the stupidest bastard in the world to lament the fact that Book XVIII does not blame the death of jesus for the destruction of the temple when Eusebius claims that it did. Unless, it did not say so at the time Origen wrote. Even the watered-down variant of the TF which modern jesus freak apologists are putting forward would have served this same purpose but he does not know of it.
It is also important to understand that the watered down variant does not exist anywhere. We have nothing...nada, zilch, oogatz...until the 4th century and then in Eusebius' writings we actually have a couple of variations of the TF but it is there in all its formal, bullshitting, glory complete with Josephus allegedly declaring that (Jesus) "was the Christ."
And poor Origen.... who could have used it to clinch his point knew nothing about it, because he was long dead.
And for the record, I don't know where Origen gets the idea that the temple was burned because of this James the Just shit. In book xx of Antiquities the sole result of the apparent killing* of James is that the high priest is removed from office.
However, in Josephus' Jewish War he states quite clearly that the temple was destroyed because the Zealots murdered priests within the sacred precints and "god" was pissed about that. So he had Titus' legions destroy the temple although they seemed pretty willing to do that anyway.
* Book xx says James was sent to be stoned. Never says it actually happened. Josephus was not one to miss out on upping the body count.
