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Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
#55
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought
Another point one needs to be clear on regarding the central question, if we're interested in Paul's specific contributions, accepted at face value, it must be understood that scholars hold a number of the traditionally attributed Pauline epistles to be of questionable authorship, if not outright forgeries. That raises an ancillary question of whether certain Pauline contributions are actually Paulline, and if, as may be the case, not, the question of whether those authors' contributions are likewise originators or mere hangers-on.

Quote:Letters attributed to St. Paul:

Of the thirteen NT letters attributed to Paul, most scholars today distinguish between two groups: those written by Paul himself vs. those written by his followers. However, since not all scholars are in agreement regarding the authorship of certain letters, rather than calling the two groups the “true” letters vs. the “false” ones, it is better to distinguish between the “undisputed” letters vs. the “disputed” ones.
  • The seven “Undisputed Letters” (a.k.a. the “Authentic Pauline Letters”).
    These can be put into three subgroups chronologically:
    • The Earliest Letter (ca. 50-51 AD): 1 Thessalonians
    • The Middle Letters (mid 50's): 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Philippians, Philemon, Galatians
    • The Latest Letter (ca. 57-58 AD): Romans
      About 95-99% of scholars today agree that all of these letters were actually written by Paul himself.

  • The six “Disputed Letters” (a.k.a. the “Deutero-Pauline Epistles”).
      For two of these, the scholarly divide is about 50/50 (that is, about 50% of scholars think they were written by Paul himself, while the other 50% think they are “pseudepigraphic” or written later by a follower of Paul):
    • If 2 Thessalonians is authentic, Paul probably wrote it soon after 1 Thess (in order to correct some misunderstandings caused by 1 Thess itself), since it is so similar in form and content to 1 Thess.
    • If Colossians is authentic, Paul probably wrote it near the end of his life (after spending several years in prison), since the theology expressed in it is rather different from Paul's earlier letters.
    • If either or both of these letters are pseudepigraphic, then they were probably written in the last few decades of the first Christian century.

  • For the other four letters, about 80% of scholars think they were not written by Paul himself, but by one of his followers after his death:
    • Ephesians is almost definitely a later expansion of Colossians, since they are so similar in structure and theology, but quite different from Paul's earlier letters; Ephesians was probably written to serve as a “cover letter” for an early collection of Pauline letters.
    • The Pastoral Epistles (1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus) were most likely written late in the first century by some member(s) of the “Pauline School” who wanted to adapt his teachings to changing circumstances.
      Note: Judging a particular letter to be pseudepigraphic does not mean that it is any less valuable than the other letters, but only that it was written later by someone other than Paul.
      All thirteen of the letters attributed to Paul are still considered “canonical”; all of them are still part of the Holy Bible and foundational for the Christian Church.
      Distinguishing the letters based on actual authorship, however, allows scholars to see more clearly the development of early Christian theology and practice.

  • The so-called Epistle to the Hebrews is definitely not written by Paul, and is not even explicitly attributed to him.
    • For centuries, many Christians counted it as the fourteenth work in the Pauline corpus, mainly because the epistolary ending mentions Timothy, Paul's closest associate (see Heb 13:23).
    • However, contrary to all other letters and epistles, the opening of Hebrews does not name its author at all.
    • In literary genre, therefore, Hebrews is not really a “letter”; rather, it is a “homily” (a scripture-based sermon).

The Deutero-Pauline Letters

In addition to the questions raised by pseudo-Pauline writings is that of whether or not there existed other writings by other authors at the time which advanced the ideas which we in our hindsight are giving Paul credit for, but which may have had significant contributors from both within the Christian movement and without. In that case, some of the Pauline contributions are only Pauline in the sense that Paul's writings survived, and the others do not. It's impossible to say in hindsight just how much is original to Paul and Jesus simply because any evidence of such was simply not preserved. In addition, it behooves us to recognize that Paul's contributions would not have had any effect if not for later Christians following in Paul's footsteps, perhaps in many cases fleshing out what is merely hinted at, intentionally or not, in Paul's writings. There are whole libraries of thought devoted to the supposed intents and meaning of biblical authors which, in some cases, may simply be an artifact of the attempt to find such meaning in the original text, which, the original author was essentially not cognizant of and not intending such meanings at all.




(July 27, 2018 at 2:30 am)Minimalist Wrote: Alex had the additional advantage of having been a real person, Jorm.  Helps a lot!

Yes and no. Someone had to write those letters, even if not an actual Paul. Perhaps a Pauline community, similar to that at Qumran. Ultimately, without a lot of knowledge of the actual philosophical under currents of the time, it may be impossible to attribute anything specifically to Paul. I suspect, given other experience, that both Greco and Roman political and philosophical movements of the time were more advanced than the pro-Pauline camp makes readily known, essentially raising Paul up by pushing the contributions of those others down. Which, in addition to our vast ignorance of the age, is one reason I'm skeptical of these types of arguments such as those of Steve, Holland, and other authors.
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Messages In This Thread
Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - July 25, 2018 at 10:13 am
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - August 6, 2018 at 1:44 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Angrboda - July 27, 2018 at 2:45 am
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Brian37 - July 29, 2018 at 12:21 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - July 31, 2018 at 12:03 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - July 31, 2018 at 10:15 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 10:47 am
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 11:16 am
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 11:41 am
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 12:02 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 12:51 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 1:00 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 3:05 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 3:15 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 1:05 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 1:29 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 1:39 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 1:55 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 2:09 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 2:57 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 3:23 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 3:20 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 3:38 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 4:03 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 4:28 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - August 1, 2018 at 5:01 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 1, 2018 at 9:27 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 4:34 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 5:03 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 1, 2018 at 10:18 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - August 2, 2018 at 10:32 am
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Succubus - August 2, 2018 at 12:41 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - August 2, 2018 at 12:46 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Jehanne - August 2, 2018 at 2:21 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Brian37 - August 2, 2018 at 12:06 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - August 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Brian37 - August 2, 2018 at 12:17 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Brian37 - August 2, 2018 at 12:46 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - August 3, 2018 at 12:57 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Brian37 - August 2, 2018 at 12:58 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Brian37 - August 2, 2018 at 2:25 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by SteveII - August 2, 2018 at 4:42 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 2, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 2, 2018 at 4:30 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 2, 2018 at 4:41 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 2, 2018 at 4:56 pm
RE: Paul's Writings Underpin Western Thought - by Amarok - August 2, 2018 at 5:20 pm

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