After birth abortion?

[Amarok]

Pregnancy is a violation of a woman’s body?  That’s a new one.

Yup if it's against  the women's will it is a violation

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I’m terribly sorry that your grandmother died in such a horrible way when she was in a clearly vulnerable position. As I said, any death from a botched procedure, illegal or otherwise is a tragedy. Her instance seems to me doubly tragic since two died, both mother and child.

We live in a different time than the 1920’s. On the plus side, we have safe, affordable methods of birth control and our culture is more accepting of single-parenthood. Healthy children are highly desirable to infertile couples and being born a “bastard” is no longer a stigma. And there is at least some, if not particularly generous, financial safety-net programs available to provide assistance to the most disadvantaged. On the negative side, many men skirt their responsibility. I suspect that fewer men feel compelled to “make an honest woman out of her” and shot-gun weddings are a thing of the past. But that also is a stereotype of men and their attitudes. I suspect that there are more than a few men who while taken by surprise would feel duty-bound to support the women they love and realize that they are fathers with equal stake in the well-being of their offspring. My point is that the ubiquity of abortion has wide-ranging and incalculable negative social consequences that cannot be ignored.

The times are irrelevant the central danger remains as for the social consequences total Conservative tripe

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This is not merely a philosophical issue to me either. The idea that my voluntary actions could have resulted in an unwanted pregnancy that might have led to the loss of human life or created familial obligations I was not prepared to take-on had a profound effect on me during my reproductive years both as a young man and affected the choices my wife and I made as a couple when confronted with infertility. 

Of no relevance 

Personal experiences clearly have relevance to others facing similar circumstances. At the same time, I do not think that being female automatically makes anyone’s opinion more authoritative with respect to public policy. IMHO it is unfair and disrespectful to invalidate people’s opinions and experiences based solely on their race, sex, religion or national origin. Conversely, one cannot automatically assume that people who share a demographic automatically share the same opinions. A significant percentage of women are opposed to abortion, or later regret having done so. Their stories matter too.

Nope their stories are relevance and no men don't get to tell women what's what   

have no reason to doubt that 1 in 4 women have had an abortion. According to some 1 in 5 women will be raped in their lifetime. No one would argue that having been raped is a good thing. As I see it, the prevalence of abortion is not a point in its favor; but rather, a sign that something is very wrong with our culture; one that makes so many women feel compelled to abort their children. I don’t know why that it is and there are probably multiple reasons - feeling shamed, the devaluing of motherhood, fearing the burden of raising a child, feeling alone and vulnerable, etc. I would suggest that options, other than taking innocent human life, are, or could be made available, to women with unwanted pregnancies. 

That's just a heap opinions 

All that said, I think there is an argument to be made that abortion is not philosophically objectionable prior to the time when a unborn human has all his or her complete and functional organs. I do not currently hold that position, since no clear line can be drawn and terms like embryo and fetus only describe stages of human development and not an ontologically non-human organism as some would suggest. Scientifically, the pro-life people are correct; abortion takes a human life. In contrast to this, the notion of “personhood”, on which the pro-choice position seems to rely, is a legal fiction, the same one used to describe corporations that are nothing more than business entities. IMO that is a massive category error.

Rubbish biology favors  pro choice 

The whole abortion debate to me is way too polarizied. What we need, IMHO and at least in America, is a consensus that avoids the extremes of "abortion is murder" and "abortion on demand". We need sound reasoning from relevant data with a clear focus on defining a proper balance between the value of human life and personal liberties to which most can agree. So if someone wants to have a civil conversation about abortion, I really and truly would be interested in a serious discussion that avoids the slogans and talking points.

Too bad you talk the talk.....

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Pregnancy is a violation of a woman’s body?  That’s a new one.

To be charitable, I'm assuming Tiz just means the involuntary continuation of a pregnancy.

Pretty much