(May 21, 2009 at 7:04 pm)EvF Wrote: You still haven't countered my argument though. Looks to me like you're just merely dismissing the logic of it.
fr0d0 Wrote:Yeah because you and I are talking theory. If your argument isn't logical then to me I couldn't hold that opinion. It'd have to make sense.
I don't know why not though.
Ok so: 1. You and I both define faith as belief without evidence right? 2. If there is reasoning to believe God actually exists then this would IOW equate to evidence right? 3. If '2.' is true and there IS reasoning to believe God actually exists and therefore IOW there's evidence of some form, then you couldn't be believing with faith or 'have faith' in God because you believe with evidence (or IOW - with good reason!) and you can't believe 'on faith' or 'with faith' when there is evidence.
What don't you get there?
Quote:You have rational reasoning to make the leap a worthwhile risk. You can't rationally do something and at the same time that thing be a risk.Not true. Because there is pretty much ALWAYS SOME risk. It's all based on probability. The point is that it's irrational to believe in God if there is no evidence and he's an AWFUL LOT more IMprobable than probable. If on the other hand the risk is very small and unlikely because there's shitloads of evidence then it's NOT rational to believe in it.
Quote:I get a glimpse of the benefits on the other side and can reason that the leap may be worth it. that's the position a Christian finds themselves in. This in no way puts beyond doubt the existence of God. That cannot be known, and faith is part of the journey.
You get a glimpse on the other side and reason the leap may be worth it? IOW you have some reasoning to believe on faith?(i.e completely without evidence?)
But if the reasons are at all valid for taking to leap on faith then they would somehow give reason to believe that God exists. They would be some form of evidence. And if that reasoning or evidence makes you think the leap of faith is worth it - then you actually not only don't NEED the leap of faith but you CAN'T have it by definition because if you could then you couldn't have the 'rational glimpse' or reasoning that you speak of TO make the leap - because if the reasoning is at all valid then it would count as evidence and hence cancel out the "faith"!
Quote:This is my last time on the forum for a few weeks guys. It's been a blast as usual. Catch up with you then. Try not to waste away in my absence k?Ok
LaterZ fr0d0! (*watches out for Kyu watching 'overhead like a hawk'* (it seems to piss him off when I say "laterZ" rather than "laters" LOL)).
EvF
