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When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional?
(September 3, 2018 at 11:27 pm)Whateverist Wrote:
(September 3, 2018 at 10:35 pm)Neo-Scholastic Wrote: Any notion of fairness already presupposes some measure existential equality. You're arguing in circles. Let's step further back. I believe there are moral facts. Are those delusions?


You could always be mistaken in your identification of the morals you identify as facts.  Thinking they are facts isn't in and of itself delusional, whether or not I choose to conceptualize morality in that way.

Do you think people who don't conceptualize morality as you do are delusional?

Not at all. I see only a difference of opinion. On this issue calling one’s own belief rational and the other delusional is nothing but offensive and arrogant hand-waving. My point is this. Beliefs formed from applying reason to common experience do not qualify as delusions. This applies to the existence of God as equally as it does to moral facts.

For example, to we all know that there are upstanding and good people. And although none of them are good in the same way; nevertheless, there seems to be an overarching concept of human goodness that unites them all. From there it is not too difficult to derive an overarching concept of goodness shared by both humans and non-human species. And from there it is not too difficult to conclude that there something like ‘The Good’ in which all good things participate and that this transcendent Good is real, in some ways perhaps more real than everyday reality.

This is by no means a clear-cut derivation but it was the conclusion made by Plato and adopted by many later pagan and Christian philosophers who call this God. They may indeed be mistaken. Most AF member seem to attribute the moral sense to some combination of animal instinct and social pragmatism. This is merely a difference of opinion between Plato. Plotinus, and Aquinas, among others and AF members. I see no justification for piling derision on people who hold opinions similar to some of the greatest thinkers of the past.
<insert profound quote here>
Reply



Messages In This Thread
When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - August 31, 2018 at 10:01 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Brian37 - August 31, 2018 at 10:05 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - August 31, 2018 at 10:07 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Joods - September 5, 2018 at 4:23 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 5:20 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 7, 2018 at 5:51 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Joods - September 7, 2018 at 6:12 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - August 31, 2018 at 10:08 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by CapnAwesome - August 31, 2018 at 10:33 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by CapnAwesome - August 31, 2018 at 11:16 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - August 31, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - August 31, 2018 at 11:38 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by brewer - August 31, 2018 at 10:49 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by vorlon13 - August 31, 2018 at 11:18 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - August 31, 2018 at 12:20 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by brewer - August 31, 2018 at 2:49 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - August 31, 2018 at 11:52 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - August 31, 2018 at 11:55 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - August 31, 2018 at 12:34 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - August 31, 2018 at 12:39 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - August 31, 2018 at 12:48 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - August 31, 2018 at 1:02 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fireball - August 31, 2018 at 10:30 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - August 31, 2018 at 2:45 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Cod - August 31, 2018 at 2:54 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - August 31, 2018 at 3:36 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by paulpablo - August 31, 2018 at 3:52 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - August 31, 2018 at 4:01 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Nay_Sayer - August 31, 2018 at 5:21 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Mister Agenda - September 4, 2018 at 1:16 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - August 31, 2018 at 9:01 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by brewer - August 31, 2018 at 10:11 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Silver - August 31, 2018 at 10:32 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - August 31, 2018 at 10:38 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by brewer - September 1, 2018 at 6:59 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 1, 2018 at 8:17 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by brewer - September 1, 2018 at 1:21 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 1, 2018 at 1:32 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by brewer - September 1, 2018 at 1:40 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 1, 2018 at 10:25 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fake Messiah - September 1, 2018 at 5:46 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by brewer - September 1, 2018 at 7:07 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 2, 2018 at 3:19 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 1, 2018 at 4:46 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 1, 2018 at 7:45 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 1, 2018 at 5:23 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 1, 2018 at 6:15 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by RoadRunner79 - September 1, 2018 at 6:49 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Aroura - September 1, 2018 at 6:59 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 1, 2018 at 8:10 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 1, 2018 at 8:26 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 1, 2018 at 10:49 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by LastPoet - September 1, 2018 at 8:35 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by vorlon13 - September 1, 2018 at 8:36 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 1, 2018 at 8:42 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 1, 2018 at 10:27 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by EgoDeath - September 1, 2018 at 11:02 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by MysticKnight - September 1, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Homeless Nutter - September 1, 2018 at 11:23 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 1, 2018 at 11:27 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 1, 2018 at 12:33 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 1, 2018 at 11:10 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 1, 2018 at 11:30 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Aroura - September 1, 2018 at 12:22 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 1, 2018 at 11:28 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 2, 2018 at 2:10 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 2, 2018 at 12:59 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 2, 2018 at 1:28 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 2, 2018 at 3:20 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 3, 2018 at 10:35 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 3, 2018 at 11:27 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fake Messiah - September 4, 2018 at 5:36 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 4, 2018 at 8:33 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 4, 2018 at 1:42 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 1:49 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 4, 2018 at 10:36 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 4, 2018 at 11:41 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 4, 2018 at 12:23 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 4, 2018 at 12:43 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 4, 2018 at 12:52 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 12:51 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 4, 2018 at 12:58 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 4, 2018 at 3:32 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 4, 2018 at 11:05 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 4, 2018 at 11:15 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by MysticKnight - September 2, 2018 at 1:09 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 2, 2018 at 2:06 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by MysticKnight - September 2, 2018 at 2:18 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 2, 2018 at 3:27 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 4, 2018 at 10:56 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by MysticKnight - September 4, 2018 at 10:58 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 4, 2018 at 11:07 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fake Messiah - September 4, 2018 at 11:18 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by downbeatplumb - September 4, 2018 at 1:38 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 4, 2018 at 11:18 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by chimp3 - September 2, 2018 at 3:46 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 4, 2018 at 8:03 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by SteveII - September 4, 2018 at 9:46 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 4, 2018 at 11:03 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 4, 2018 at 2:30 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 5, 2018 at 3:01 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 4, 2018 at 12:41 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by SteveII - September 4, 2018 at 2:57 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by chimp3 - September 4, 2018 at 9:52 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 5, 2018 at 7:52 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 9:35 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by RoadRunner79 - September 5, 2018 at 11:50 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 5, 2018 at 11:57 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 12:15 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by RoadRunner79 - September 5, 2018 at 3:43 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by RoadRunner79 - September 5, 2018 at 3:40 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 5, 2018 at 11:58 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 5, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by LastPoet - September 5, 2018 at 3:36 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 6, 2018 at 8:25 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 2, 2018 at 4:41 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by chimp3 - September 2, 2018 at 4:54 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 2, 2018 at 7:15 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fake Messiah - September 3, 2018 at 12:19 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 3, 2018 at 6:51 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 2:00 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 4, 2018 at 9:06 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 4, 2018 at 1:24 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by LastPoet - September 4, 2018 at 2:34 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 4, 2018 at 2:07 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 4, 2018 at 2:41 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 4, 2018 at 3:21 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 4, 2018 at 10:33 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 12:35 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 12:53 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by LastPoet - September 4, 2018 at 12:55 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 12:58 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 4, 2018 at 1:02 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 1:32 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 1:00 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 1:57 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 4, 2018 at 2:13 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 2:14 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 4, 2018 at 1:58 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 2:08 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 4, 2018 at 2:07 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 4, 2018 at 2:17 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 4, 2018 at 2:22 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 4, 2018 at 4:13 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 3:05 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 4, 2018 at 3:28 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 4, 2018 at 4:43 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 4, 2018 at 5:36 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Bob Kelso - September 4, 2018 at 10:19 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 5, 2018 at 3:20 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 5, 2018 at 11:48 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by downbeatplumb - September 5, 2018 at 1:40 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Mister Agenda - September 6, 2018 at 2:53 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 6, 2018 at 2:58 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 6, 2018 at 5:04 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 7, 2018 at 2:50 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 11, 2018 at 3:25 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Silver - September 11, 2018 at 3:36 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 11, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 12, 2018 at 9:24 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 12, 2018 at 9:43 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fake Messiah - September 5, 2018 at 3:42 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 10:13 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by MysticKnight - September 4, 2018 at 5:13 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 4, 2018 at 5:49 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 4, 2018 at 7:04 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by LastPoet - September 5, 2018 at 3:20 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 5, 2018 at 3:31 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 6:21 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 5, 2018 at 4:16 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 10:04 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 10:01 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Silver - September 5, 2018 at 10:01 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 5, 2018 at 10:47 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Silver - September 5, 2018 at 10:48 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 11:00 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Silver - September 5, 2018 at 11:01 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Pat Mustard - September 5, 2018 at 3:33 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 4:20 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Bob Kelso - September 5, 2018 at 10:09 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 10:30 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fake Messiah - September 5, 2018 at 10:50 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 10:53 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Silver - September 5, 2018 at 10:55 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 11:03 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Fake Messiah - September 5, 2018 at 11:32 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 5, 2018 at 12:23 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 12:13 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Anomalocaris - September 5, 2018 at 12:29 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 1:44 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 5, 2018 at 3:42 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 4:02 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 5, 2018 at 4:07 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 5, 2018 at 4:14 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Joods - September 5, 2018 at 4:19 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 6, 2018 at 12:40 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by downbeatplumb - September 6, 2018 at 1:21 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Abaddon_ire - September 5, 2018 at 4:29 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by robvalue - September 6, 2018 at 9:04 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 6, 2018 at 12:45 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 6, 2018 at 12:48 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Minimalist - September 6, 2018 at 5:19 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 6, 2018 at 5:36 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Whateverist - September 6, 2018 at 5:51 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 6, 2018 at 8:32 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 7, 2018 at 5:40 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by RoadRunner79 - September 7, 2018 at 5:33 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 7, 2018 at 5:50 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by RoadRunner79 - September 7, 2018 at 5:56 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 7, 2018 at 5:58 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 11, 2018 at 3:40 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Gawdzilla Sama - September 12, 2018 at 6:21 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Neo-Scholastic - September 12, 2018 at 10:55 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 12, 2018 at 11:04 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 12, 2018 at 11:10 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Amarok - September 12, 2018 at 5:37 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by The Grand Nudger - September 12, 2018 at 11:01 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by The Grand Nudger - September 12, 2018 at 11:14 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 12, 2018 at 11:35 am
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by polymath257 - September 12, 2018 at 12:43 pm
RE: When is a Religious Belief Delusional? - by Angrboda - September 12, 2018 at 5:52 pm

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