(September 4, 2018 at 11:41 am)Neo-Scholastic Wrote:(September 4, 2018 at 10:36 am)Jörmungandr Wrote: No, it does not. The notion of fairness creates an imperative to treat identical members consistently. That's a question of identity, not of inherent value. Do we have reason to believe that all humans share the identity of human independent of ideas that we should? Yes, we do. So it's not circular.
It absolutely is circular because human beings are not naturally equal. There are all kinds of metrics by which people vary not the least of which are sex, intelligence, age, health, stature, and attractiveness. Any one or more of those natural inequalities could (and has been) used to deny the dignity due to every human being. And if you think that is obvious then you are at odds with the overwhelming judgment of cultures over history for thousands of years. I would suggest that the only reason it is 'obvious' is because Judeo-Christian values, developed over 2000 years, are so embedded in Western culture that even secular people in those societies take them for granted.
(September 4, 2018 at 11:05 am)Abaddon_ire Wrote: How do you determine what exactly these "moral facts" you claim exist really are?
That is irrelevant. The question is about delusions. Are you saying that anyone who believes something, like "humans are existentially equals" or "pederasty is evil",...that person is delusional? Suppose that person has no reason to support that belief. Does that, in-and-of-itself, make that person delusional.
Is the belief in categorical imperatives delusional?
Is it delusional to believe in mathematical objects?
No. It absolutely is not irrelevant.
If you are unable to state where on earth you get your moral absolutes, then those clearly are NOT moral absolutes.
Furthermore, Judeo-christian values have propagated violence, mysogyny, hate, genocide, paedophilia and incest for those very same 2,000 years and continue to do so to this very day.
I ask again. From whence do you garner your moral absolutes? It cannot be the bible, nor the Torah, nor that Koran. Those would make you a monster, and I am sure you don't want that.
The question remains. From whence do you glean your moral absolutes? And the fact remains that you are unable to say. Or possibly afraid to say.