Moohahahah, I mean welcome this will be fun.. Remember what I said: Hell is forever Satan will burn in hell forever. the rest will be consumed or it is refered to as our second death. the idea hell his where the soul is sent to be destroyed. shall we see if we can untie what religion has bound so you can see the unfiltered truth???
Matthew 3
(10) And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
(12) Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
again describe hell being forever, not us in hell forever. we are the chaff to be burned up...
again nothing about hell being forever. just a warning not to call your brother a fool in rage!
but over and over even with the jews in their use of sheol refers to hell as the grave the second death jesus often refer to us being consumed by hell fire or being 'burned up.' only once in mat is one being and his angels condemned to hell forever. Lest you claim we are satan's army of fallen angels those are the only beings cursed to burnin hell forever... notice how Jesus focuses on the angels being punished in mat 25:41 not only the punishment. why? because they are condemned to hell forever. unlike in verse 46 he simply points to the nature of hell or the punishment being forever, because again 41 it was set up to punish satan and his angels forever.. As this passage indicates only satan and his angels are to burn forever.
Again no where in the bible does it say because hell is forever we will burn forever. on the contary when ever we are mention i the context of the punishment of hell we are often refer to being sent there to be consumed to die, to have our souls destroyed by hell fire.
like
Here's another point there are like 20 some odd parables recorded in the gospel all having to do with the desirable being taken in and the weeds the chaff the unproducing fruit branches all being thrown into the fire to be burned up... not burned forever. in each parable never once does it say those weeds will burn forever, always consumed by the fire or destroyed by the first..
Then you must also explain "the second death" as in rev chapter 2, 20 an 21
what is the second death?
21 defines:
11 Then I saw a large white throne. I saw the one who was sitting on the throne. Earth and sky ran away from him and disappeared. 12 And I saw those who had died, great and small, standing before the throne. Some books were opened. And another book was opened—the book of life. The people were judged by what they had done, which is written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. All these people were judged by what they had done. 14 And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Maybe you want to argue the word death meaning eternal life in hell lets see what the word means in the koine'...
STRONGS NT 2288: θάνατος
θάνατος, θανάτου, ὁ (θανεῖν); the Sept. for מָוֶת and מוּת, also for דֶּבֶר pestilence (Winers Grammar, 29 note); (one of the nouns often anarthrous, cf. Winers Grammar, § 19, 1 under the word; (Buttmann, § 124, 8 c.); Grimm, commentary on Sap., p. 59); death;
1. properly, the death of the body, i. e. that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul from the body by which the life on earth is ended..
Hence 2nd death It is like STRONGS NT 2288: θάνατος
θάνατος, θανάτου, 1st death of the body, but since there was a resurrection and subsequent judgement, then second death in Hell is the second time you are to die. If the passage meant torment ever lasting life then it would use the same words described Satan's lot with his angels.. as they would live forever in torment in Hell.
Again you job/tast is to show one place that does not just describe hell as being forever but out internment there being forever as it is describe for satan and his angels. as it is the only way you can purly read the bible and ascribe anyone to an eternity to hell is to identify them as satan or one of his angels. otherwise the best you can do is point to hell being forever. that the smoke and fire never dies that the worm never dies... that's it..
(November 19, 2018 at 11:17 am)unfogged Wrote: [quote='Drich' pid='1853555' dateline='1542638653']
Good lord people learn to seperate the bible and the god of the bible and religion. they are not one in the same. for instance where in the bible does it say we will be sent to hell to suffer forever?
Matthew 3
(10) And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
(11) I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
(12) Whose fan [is] in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.
again describe hell being forever, not us in hell forever. we are the chaff to be burned up...
Quote:Matthew 5
(22) But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.
again nothing about hell being forever. just a warning not to call your brother a fool in rage!
Quote:Matthew 7again nothing about hell being forever for the sinner just the sinner will be sent to hell, not arguing that. I am arguing the sinner will burn forever. I am saying the bible never says that it says we will be destroyed by hell fire....
(19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Quote: Matthew 13I have not disputed any of this. there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth without a doubt, coming from lost souls and satan himself as he is not the lord of Hell but being tortured by it as well! But him unlike us will be burned by hell forever.
(38) The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one];
(39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
(40) As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
(41) The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
(42) And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
Quote:Matthew 18Again and again and again.... The punishment is forever as Hell is forever We are not... If your reading/assumption is correct Why doesn't Jesus say "and you shall go away to be punished forever?" why does he focus on the method of punishment rather than the application? Why is the method of punishment always the focus on each and every example ot how you will be punished or the duration??? The method focuses on the fact that once the decision has been made there is no turning back.
(8) Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast [them] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.
(9) And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast [it] from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.[quote] again hell is forever.. never disputed that... but again no where in this passage does it say that souls will burn forever.
heel being forever=/= you are forever burning. the bible only says that about one being/satan. He is theonly one slated to burn forever. We have passage after passage of you/souls being burned up by the fire that burns forever.
[quote]
Matthew 25
(40) And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.
(41) Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
(42) For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
(43) I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
(44) Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
(45) Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did [it] not to one of the least of these, ye did [it] not to me.
(46) And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
I'm sure you have apologetics to explain why the text doesn't mean what it says but the plain reading is clear no matter how badly you want to deny it.
but over and over even with the jews in their use of sheol refers to hell as the grave the second death jesus often refer to us being consumed by hell fire or being 'burned up.' only once in mat is one being and his angels condemned to hell forever. Lest you claim we are satan's army of fallen angels those are the only beings cursed to burnin hell forever... notice how Jesus focuses on the angels being punished in mat 25:41 not only the punishment. why? because they are condemned to hell forever. unlike in verse 46 he simply points to the nature of hell or the punishment being forever, because again 41 it was set up to punish satan and his angels forever.. As this passage indicates only satan and his angels are to burn forever.
Again no where in the bible does it say because hell is forever we will burn forever. on the contary when ever we are mention i the context of the punishment of hell we are often refer to being sent there to be consumed to die, to have our souls destroyed by hell fire.
like
Quote: mat 10:And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.wonder why you left that out of your verse dump??? did you not know it was there or could you not simply and honestly reconcile this passage with your religious doctrine? better to be dishonest than look foolish huh??
Here's another point there are like 20 some odd parables recorded in the gospel all having to do with the desirable being taken in and the weeds the chaff the unproducing fruit branches all being thrown into the fire to be burned up... not burned forever. in each parable never once does it say those weeds will burn forever, always consumed by the fire or destroyed by the first..
Then you must also explain "the second death" as in rev chapter 2, 20 an 21
what is the second death?
21 defines:
11 Then I saw a large white throne. I saw the one who was sitting on the throne. Earth and sky ran away from him and disappeared. 12 And I saw those who had died, great and small, standing before the throne. Some books were opened. And another book was opened—the book of life. The people were judged by what they had done, which is written in the books.
13 The sea gave up the dead who were in it. Death and Hades gave up the dead who were in them. All these people were judged by what they had done. 14 And Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This lake of fire is the second death. 15 And anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire.
Maybe you want to argue the word death meaning eternal life in hell lets see what the word means in the koine'...
STRONGS NT 2288: θάνατος
θάνατος, θανάτου, ὁ (θανεῖν); the Sept. for מָוֶת and מוּת, also for דֶּבֶר pestilence (Winers Grammar, 29 note); (one of the nouns often anarthrous, cf. Winers Grammar, § 19, 1 under the word; (Buttmann, § 124, 8 c.); Grimm, commentary on Sap., p. 59); death;
1. properly, the death of the body, i. e. that separation (whether natural or violent) of the soul from the body by which the life on earth is ended..
Hence 2nd death It is like STRONGS NT 2288: θάνατος
θάνατος, θανάτου, 1st death of the body, but since there was a resurrection and subsequent judgement, then second death in Hell is the second time you are to die. If the passage meant torment ever lasting life then it would use the same words described Satan's lot with his angels.. as they would live forever in torment in Hell.
Again you job/tast is to show one place that does not just describe hell as being forever but out internment there being forever as it is describe for satan and his angels. as it is the only way you can purly read the bible and ascribe anyone to an eternity to hell is to identify them as satan or one of his angels. otherwise the best you can do is point to hell being forever. that the smoke and fire never dies that the worm never dies... that's it..
