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Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 1:37 am
If there are any Christians perusing the forum I would like to ask you a question. I've been an atheist for about 4 years now and only one question still troubles me about Jesus. Why does it matter if he was tortured and crucified? If he was a godly being, with dominion over nature and the entire universe, surely he would have the ability to not feel pain. How would pain even be scaled to a supreme being?
Furthermore, I don't understand why an eternal, omniscient being would decide that he would need to put himself through a few days of pain in order to save his creation from their sin. Even if he did suffer horrendous pain, it still would prove nothing. It wouldn't prove he was honorable, trustworthy, or that any of his teachings were correct. While sacrificing yourself for something greater than yourself is honorable, it doesn't absolve others of their sins. It also doesn't count as a sacrificial act if Jesus rose from the dead and took his seat as the ruler of the universe again.
The crucifixion doesn't matter.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 1:59 am
Careful. That's very close to docetism.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Docetism
That's a heresy. Fine xtians would burn you at the stake for it.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 2:40 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 2:41 am by robvalue.)
It is an absolutely ridiculous story.
It's like an abusive parent who has been smacking his kids around since they were born stops for a minute and lightly punches himself a few times.
"Ooh, ooh, this really hurts. I'm hitting myself for a bit because I love you. Wow this is horribly painful. Now I can forgive you for being born."
Then back to smacking them around.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 2:54 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 2:56 am by Athene.)
(July 19, 2015 at 1:37 am)luka Wrote: If there are any Christians perusing the forum I would like to ask you a question. I've been an atheist for about 4 years now and only one question still troubles me about Jesus. Why does it matter if he was tortured and crucified? If he was a godly being, with dominion over nature and the entire universe, surely he would have the ability to not feel pain. How would pain even be scaled to a supreme being?
Furthermore, I don't understand why an eternal, omniscient being would decide that he would need to put himself through a few days of pain in order to save his creation from their sin. Even if he did suffer horrendous pain, it still would prove nothing. It wouldn't prove he was honorable, trustworthy, or that any of his teachings were correct. While sacrificing yourself for something greater than yourself is honorable, it doesn't absolve others of their sins. It also doesn't count as a sacrificial act if Jesus rose from the dead and took his seat as the ruler of the universe again.
The crucifixion doesn't matter.
"Remember kids, if you don't sin, then Jesus died for nothing."--Ricky Gervais
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 3:07 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 3:09 am by Longhorn.)
Scapegoating. Not absolving you from your responsibility even if you think it does since ever
Jesus didn't even die. Death, by definition, is the permanent ending of vital processes. If something comes back to life, it means it's never been dead in the first place. So next time somebody days Jesus died for you, throw a fucking dictionary at them.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 5:12 am
"Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross" What sacrifice? he got better 3 days later and then went home to his dad, more like a slight inconvenience than a sacrifice.
The meek shall inherit the Earth, the rest of us will fly to the stars.
Never underestimate the power of very stupid people in large groups
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling with a pig in mud ..... after a while you realise that the pig likes it!
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 9:51 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 9:52 am by Nope.)
(July 19, 2015 at 5:12 am)zebo-the-fat Wrote: "Jesus sacrificed himself on the cross" What sacrifice? he got better 3 days later and then went home to his dad, more like a slight inconvenience than a sacrifice.
Most people could handle three days of misery if they knew that ultimately they would be worshipped and glorified for an eternity.
The Romans killed a lot of people in really horrible ways. Why should Jesus' death matter more than theirs? Jesus didn't even suffer as long as the thieves who were with him when they died.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 9:54 am
Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
Mystery of faith ??
(always wondered what that was all about, mebbee this be it?)
The granting of a pardon is an imputation of guilt, and the acceptance a confession of it.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:04 am
(July 19, 2015 at 1:37 am)luka Wrote: If there are any Christians perusing the forum I would like to ask you a question. I've been an atheist for about 4 years now and only one question still troubles me about Jesus. Why does it matter if he was tortured and crucified? If he was a godly being, with dominion over nature and the entire universe, surely he would have the ability to not feel pain. How would pain even be scaled to a supreme being?
True. However, Jesus was also fully human, and he experienced hunger, cold, and pain just as we do.
Now, in terms of sacrifice for our sins, it was not REALLY necessary that Jesus be tortured and suffer. However, if he had simply walked into Pilate's office and said, "I'm here for my beheading" followed by a quick sword stroke, I don't think that WE would think quite as much of that as we do of the scourging, the crowning with thorns and the crucifixion. The latter execution is FAR more graphic and helps us to appreciate the lengths to which God was willing to go in order to redeem us. It was a heavy price, but He paid it.
Quote:Furthermore, I don't understand why an eternal, omniscient being would decide that he would need to put himself through a few days of pain in order to save his creation from their sin. Even if he did suffer horrendous pain, it still would prove nothing. It wouldn't prove he was honorable, trustworthy, or that any of his teachings were correct. While sacrificing yourself for something greater than yourself is honorable, it doesn't absolve others of their sins. It also doesn't count as a sacrificial act if Jesus rose from the dead and took his seat as the ruler of the universe again.
The crucifixion doesn't matter.
If your child breaks a large bay window in a neighbor's house that he cannot possibly pay for by himself, you step in to pay the debt to the neighbor. The neighbor is satisfied and the child is no longer under obligation.
We could not possibly repay our debt to God for the sins we commit, so Jesus stepped in to pay it for us. We are absolved, and we are no longer under obligation.
The crucifixion means everything.
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RE: Why does Jesus' "suffering" matter?
July 19, 2015 at 10:06 am
(This post was last modified: July 19, 2015 at 10:07 am by robvalue.)
No, no, no. Jesus says he felt pain. He made out he felt pain. He's a fucking God, I think he can fool people. He is doing a very good job of it. You don't have much of an opinion of your God huh?
Jesus can fuck off, I'll address my own transgressions without his monkey ass.
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