Hey all, sorry to not introduce myself, I am mastertrell, a shaman by creed and wanderer by choice. I do thank you for the compliments as well, I try and be a studious learner. I have been studying both particle physics and the different spiritual path for most of my life. I believe that the 2 of them must merge and meet at a certain point if they exist. I have taken my beliefs to be what ever I find to be true and test all hypothesis and to admit failure if something is wrong and change my beliefs as the evidence presents itself. But what I love most is a vigorous debate as that is the only way to expand your mind.
Now on to my rebuttals, the first one is a good one. Rythym said "If everything has a cause, what is the cause of god?" and I must reply this way, Everything in this universe has a cause, we have never observed in practice or law of math an effect that preceded a cause. The simple reason for this is logical by definition, an effect is a measurable property or condition that bears the result of sequential action. All I stated was that in order to seed the first mass/energy cycle that we know as the big bang and big crunch, something outside of causality would have to cause this. I don’t proclaim or deny that god could be an entity or some illogical process that spawned a universe of steady logic laws. And to the second point, we can’t measure that which is outside the realm of logic, as different laws apply, remember effects are measurable and since we can’t measure god, he/she would not be subject to effect or cause. My argument does hold merit on this basis.
BTW, shaman origins translated from German mean to burn but since the first shaman culture was Russian, it’s more accurate to use the meaning from the culture that practiced the beliefs and not one that was merely looking in with their own interpretations. In Russian it means to loose control and be enraptured. I believe in meditation if you use the logic of simulation- wrapping your mind around all possible outcomes and tempering it with physics, you will come to the truth.
One great point that was brought up by Rayaan that I really want to delve into deeper is the concept of nothing and that many people have different notions of what it means. One idea is there is no matter or energy are in a given space, which seems correct at first but then you do have something, you have a property a dimension of measurement- space itself, and vacuum pressure and the laws of the universe also apply in said space so there is quite a lot of something there. A net zero means you have a potential which is an applied property and therefore it’s effects must have cause. I believe that scientists when they did the first devised the theory of the big bang, Georges Lemaître in particular, defined everything before the big bang as utter void. No special dimension or property of time, no innate laws, no potential energy as that is a form of energy and had no area to exist in (numbers need a number line as mass energy needs special dimension to be defined). Now here is the rub, in such an utter void of nothingness, there is no spark or cause that can create something in a LOGICAL manner. For if you say something popped in like a spark or gravity effecting the branes of a dimension and poof this creates energy that can then correlate into mass as hawking pointed out, could not be possible in an utter void, there would be no gravity or dimensional membrane. I have found no scientific way such an event could happen without defying the laws of logic.
I love this forum because I do see a lot of well read people, very intelligent discussion and most important, open minds here. I run into a lot of people who just insult you because you say you believe in something more complex then the mundane but when you start rattling off magnetic field and how they are necessary to preserve angular momentum, they just usually capitulate and say “well god doesn’t exist so there”
and I roll my eyes and move on. I hope to be a new and contributing member here.
Now on to my rebuttals, the first one is a good one. Rythym said "If everything has a cause, what is the cause of god?" and I must reply this way, Everything in this universe has a cause, we have never observed in practice or law of math an effect that preceded a cause. The simple reason for this is logical by definition, an effect is a measurable property or condition that bears the result of sequential action. All I stated was that in order to seed the first mass/energy cycle that we know as the big bang and big crunch, something outside of causality would have to cause this. I don’t proclaim or deny that god could be an entity or some illogical process that spawned a universe of steady logic laws. And to the second point, we can’t measure that which is outside the realm of logic, as different laws apply, remember effects are measurable and since we can’t measure god, he/she would not be subject to effect or cause. My argument does hold merit on this basis.
BTW, shaman origins translated from German mean to burn but since the first shaman culture was Russian, it’s more accurate to use the meaning from the culture that practiced the beliefs and not one that was merely looking in with their own interpretations. In Russian it means to loose control and be enraptured. I believe in meditation if you use the logic of simulation- wrapping your mind around all possible outcomes and tempering it with physics, you will come to the truth.
One great point that was brought up by Rayaan that I really want to delve into deeper is the concept of nothing and that many people have different notions of what it means. One idea is there is no matter or energy are in a given space, which seems correct at first but then you do have something, you have a property a dimension of measurement- space itself, and vacuum pressure and the laws of the universe also apply in said space so there is quite a lot of something there. A net zero means you have a potential which is an applied property and therefore it’s effects must have cause. I believe that scientists when they did the first devised the theory of the big bang, Georges Lemaître in particular, defined everything before the big bang as utter void. No special dimension or property of time, no innate laws, no potential energy as that is a form of energy and had no area to exist in (numbers need a number line as mass energy needs special dimension to be defined). Now here is the rub, in such an utter void of nothingness, there is no spark or cause that can create something in a LOGICAL manner. For if you say something popped in like a spark or gravity effecting the branes of a dimension and poof this creates energy that can then correlate into mass as hawking pointed out, could not be possible in an utter void, there would be no gravity or dimensional membrane. I have found no scientific way such an event could happen without defying the laws of logic.
I love this forum because I do see a lot of well read people, very intelligent discussion and most important, open minds here. I run into a lot of people who just insult you because you say you believe in something more complex then the mundane but when you start rattling off magnetic field and how they are necessary to preserve angular momentum, they just usually capitulate and say “well god doesn’t exist so there”
and I roll my eyes and move on. I hope to be a new and contributing member here. 
