(December 6, 2018 at 3:10 am)Belaqua Wrote:(December 5, 2018 at 10:06 pm)Grandizer Wrote: Now for P3, on the other hand, I don't fully agree with.
Agreed, P3 is less self-evident. I was trying to think of counter-examples on the bus this afternoon.
From our temporal perspective, I don't think I can think of one that is observable by us. But that's ok, since this premise has not been shown to be necessarily true (and the OP could do that by showing that there is a logical problem with a set causing its elements, which I have not seen him do).
It may be empirically supported, but even so, what may be true of the things in this universe may not necessarily be true of the universe itself. Or what may be true of the things in Existence/Reality may not necessarily be true of Existence/Reality itself.
And keep in mind this premise seems to assume the A-theory of time, which is not exactly supported by modern cosmological science.
Note below:
Quote:P3. The principle of limitation: For all A, where A is an element of B, B -> A does not hold. This says a system (which Hatcher represents as a set) cannot be the cause of its own components. Hatcher justifies this by explaining any system has (1) form (the parts) and (2) function (the relationship between the parts). A car (the system) cannot be the cause of its own steering wheel (a part), because the car does not even logically exist until the steering wheel exists. Thus the car's existence cannot precede the steering wheel's existence.
In that last sentence, the word "precede" is used, implying a passage of time which is not posited by all theories of time. The B-theory of time, for example, has the flow of time being an illusion and that nothing objectively precedes anything else. All moments in time just are ("past, present, and future"). In this case, if the B-theory of time is true, then this is not a problem at all for the B-theorist. The B-theorist can simply ignore this as it does not assume the B-theory of time.
Any problems with this so far?
I'll skip the rest of what you said for now, but if you still need me to address them, let me know.