(December 19, 2018 at 3:34 am)Godscreated Wrote: You are pushing against the religious because you see them as stubborn in their belief and yet you are doing the same thing you accuses them of doing, You can't do that and get anywhere. You say you do not believe in anything without proof stick around for a while and you'll be challenged on that statement, many things in science have no proofs and thus by your own words must reject them as you have God, welcome to the forum.
GC
I just got back home. Wow this topic grew a bit.
Anyways, back to the point: I am not pushing anything, I am trying to understand where they get enough evidence to state "god did it".
Alll I perceive is the present physical reality, no more no less. Someone in the past tried to understand how this reality works, carried out experiments and discovered the fundamental laws that regulate everything and it turns out they actually work. Thanks to these discoveries, now we can fly or communicate at distance in real time like it was nothing. In parallel, many creeds and religions developed, trying to justify the same things with magic and gradually losing impact as more things got explained by science.
How did everything come to life? I don't know. There are many theories around such as the big bang, which is the most "scientific", and then there is creationism, which is more abstract and magical. I still don't know which one it is, I don't have enough proof to state with certainty that no magical being exists.
So not knowing, I keep questioning and exploring and learning, in the attempt to discover the truth. I don't make it my ultimate mission, as keeping myself alive in practice requires a good deal of work, but it's a side project I keep an eye on. What really puzzles me is how believers (no matter the religion) have this certainty that it was a magical being called god. Where do they get this confidence? Do they possess some kind of evidence I overlooked in my learning process? If so, can they share with me this personal evidence they uncovered?
Also, assuming that we were created by some entity, where do they get the confidence it's the benevolent and magical god described in their book? Couldn't it be some impartial, neutral and uncaring being that just creates life and moves on? No heaven or hell, just some giant manta ray that wanders in the universe and creates things? Or a giant metallic octahedra with the mystical power to generate life? How exactly is their version of god more likely than the examples I named?
Also, since the main "counter argument" of theists in this forum seems to be related to abiogenesis, giving for granted that if someone doesn't believe in creationism, then it must be abiogenesis, there is also the option that we don't know. Or well, I personally stated in the first line that I'm agnostic and I remain open to the possibility of both being plausible until conclusive evidence is shown. The difference is that believers are very confident in their statements. It's like they are in a hurry to discover the truth and would rather blindly accept some sketchy story now rather then question it and keep exploring.
Ultimately, to anyone who makes it their strong point that "science can't explain this, so it must be god", I'd like to add a "yet" in their sentence. Give it time, don't be in a hurry. I'd rather die questioning than blindly accept some farfetched story.
