I'll condense my answer or it will fill the entire thread:
1) You are comparing evidence in a court trial vs evidence in science. Do I need to go further? The former is obviously limited as often times you are trying to prove the unprovable, the latter is not confirmed for years until unequivocable proof is shown. Also, some judges may be corrupt and decide a sentence to their liking and you can't help it. They respond to different criteria. In science, even if you wanted to make something false pass as truth, nature will eventually show you otherwise. The same cannot be said in a court.
2) There is no objectivity in what you said, this is why it was disqualified.
3) About biblical answers to questions and evolution and 7 day creation, that logic is backwards. "You can't disprove my god while my god can give you all the answers". Pretty much
4) About the mustard seed of faith, how is that exactly a unit of measure? Are we comparing size? Mass? You know that if you were referring to eg energy, then a mustard seed would be equal to a fuckton of nuclear energy (E = mc2)?
5) Ask, Seek, Knock is your recursive answer. You said I did it on my terms and it didn't work. Then what are his terms?
6) About my uncle: you say that I have a lock on what is eternal and what is not. How do you even know that? And no, his contentment is not offensive. Anyone is free to do what they want with their life.
7) About your dream/revelation: how do you know it wasn't just a dream? I've done all sort of things to summon god, even insulted him, bashed on him, tried to befriend satan to spite him and never had such nightmare. Never ever dreamed about some god entity in 30 years despite putting a lot of work in it (and if you don't know, dreams are a reflection of our subconscious, so you'd expect me to dream about it at some point but nein).
8) About master&servant: if God was anything like the queen or Obama, first of all he would be factual, he would physically exist in this perceived reality. The queen and Obama may ignore me, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I can see them, if I wanted I could shake hands. Can you say the same for mr God?
9) About science/god/batman: my view of science could be easily equated to most definitions of God laid out there by the many theists. The only difference being that my "god/science" is not merciful/caring/nice but is just neutral and doesn't give a shit. What puzzles me is that theists are convinced that "god/science" is nice and caring and loving.
10) At this point I think you don't even know what infinite means. You've used that term many times in the wrong context. Technically PI is infinite too yet it is finite. An irrational number is infinite as there are many figures after the point, but it's still finite and you can use it in calculations without problems. The assumption of the universe being infinite doesn't stop us from understanding it, so why should god, who is also supposedly infinite, stop us from understanding him/it/her? It's like a self-imposed limitation on your side. Be brave.
11) Following on the above point, if science discovered God why would we be the masters? If I lived in a tyrannical regime and found out what's the tyrant's name and where he lives, it still wouldn't change that I have to serve him or I get slashed. But let's make the opposite example too: why would God require to be superior in order to seek us out? It sounds like a child play "I will play with you only if I get to be the king!". Speak about lowering to our level....
12) If God used man made technology to solve these problems, then indeed there is no need for a God. You are just equating God to humans here. Being above man would mean he can push it further, yet he doesn't. If you know he can do more, then would you mind specifying what exactly he can do more? Or so far there is 0 evidence of the greater feats he did, meaning that so far he didn't do anything that couldn't be brought back to simple man. And to answer your question: if I were God, I wouldn't create anything at all.
13) Ah, so it's not years of studying and practice that let you do operations, it's the hand of God. Sure, and what when doctors make a mistake? God was having a coffee? Has it never crossed your mind that it was your fingers and mind alone that created those two patents? Why must it be some untangible mystical entity?
14) About my auntie, you overlooked a particular: she was suffering during that period. If death just came all of a sudden, then I'd agree with you. Even in my case, if I suddenly had a stroke and died, I'd be fine with that. What's better way to die? But if prior to death I had to suffer for 10-15y and take medicines nonstop, is it still so nice? Sure, death would still be an end to the suffering, but should we consider the 10-15y of suffering as a reward too? Or let's just overlook this particular because it's not convenient? The logic you are using here could be used to also justify the exact opposite of what you are saying in every case.
15) About you standing before God in judgement, I guess it still refers to that dream?
16) If you were a retard as you say and it was God's intervention to have made you the successful man you are today, why doesn't this happen to other people in your same situation? If it was a reproducible phenomenon, then it would be worth investigating it, but if it's an isolated case, isn't it easier to justify with coincidence or simply with the fact that you aren't a retard as you believe? It somehow feels forced to bring in godlike entities to justify your life success. So ye, it boils down to what you think it's more likely: magical being making you successful or you making the right choices at the right times.
17) I had to quote this:
1) YOU are putting limitations on yourself on your own.
2) Society does not decide anything.
3) Just look at yourself alone, as if you were an hermit: what are your limitations?
I 100% disagree with what you said in that post, but it is a subjective point of view.
18) I read the entire thread where you narrate your story (including the star trek jokes). It is quite a tale, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt that it really happened as you described, however that in my book is still not conclusive demonstration of god's existence. Assuming it all played out like you said it did, it sounds more like a con artist tale than a meeting with an angel. Why do I think like that? Let's play pretend:
Let's pretend that I am a hobo who needs to move from A to C by passing through B. I scout the nearby 7/11 for some potential "investor", and I make up a story of needing a ride to B while putting in some god's stuff argument. If the interlocutor does not fall for it, I move on to the next target. Let's say I finally get someone whose lifestory resonates with my con story: how is that someone supposed to know that I am a con and not an angel? I know I'm not an angel, I tell him I am and he believes it. Depending on how much I ask him, I may have ruined or messed up that man's life and he'll believe it was God.
What differentiate that someone from you? How do you tell one from the other?
19) About your promises, before you said that your success in this reality wasn't the real reward and that you actually had to deal with hardships anyway (heroin addiction of your wife). So what gives? If you are successful it is god keeping his promises, but if you have to endure other hardships then it's because this is not the real reward? Sorry, but it sounds like you are trying to justify everything depending on how it is more convenient depending on the situation.
20) If my happiness was bound to live in misery without arms/legs, I'd rather be "unhappy".
21) Oh oh
However, this was just an intuition of mine, my own speculation of how it felt like. You can read more about this view of mine on that link I provided. Just to avoid misunderstanding, the "god" I'm referring to in that picture is not the christian god or some other renown god. It's more like I was classifying myself as god.
22) If the hell you describe is the emptiness where Christ/god doesn't love you, then I think I can survive that. I've lived my life by learning from my own experiences AND from other's experiences. I learnt that bonding with your fellow human constitutes a weakness and may hurt in the long run and so I practiced to live happily without anyone's love. Even if tomorrow humanity disappeared and I was the last man standing, I would find something to occupy my time with. Linking back to point 21, this is what makes me feel invincible in this world. In psychology, this is also appointed as dissociation/depersonalization.
23) So our purpose is that of being slaves?
24) So he created us, dropped us in a big world and made us "filter" ourselves so only the elite could go back to the garden. Again, why go through the trouble? Why create adam in the first place? Couldn't he have stayed put and just rest in his garden? It feels like he was bored and decided to create a big number of humans and test them so to see who would be worthy enough to keep in the shelf (garden) and who to leave in the dumpster (earth). What kind of game is that? It sounds like Saw movies.
25) There is a lot of misinterpretation below, so I'll have to quote it directly:
2) The hole in the ozone is not an actual "hole" that has to be "sealed". Please again, there seems to be a lot of misinformation on your side about the sciency side of things. The hole refers to the layer of ozone getting thinner, not getting actually pierced. That would be equal to have a high powered laser cutting on earth as it spins, it would be devastating lol.
If this was your interpretation of these "prophecies", then I'm only getting further from believing it. Society does speculate on these things, but first of all they are natural phenomenons that have always been at play. Men did worsen the situation, but it was always there.
26) All of the responses that follow after are pretty much based on your personal experience and your view of it. A self fulfilled prophecy for some, or the actual truth of god's existence. As it is a subjective experience, we don't have much say in it. You pretty much see his messages where you feel it, as it is to be expected after feeling changed by this experience. The other response about following god on his terms was already asked before.
27) About morality and pain, what are you even talking about? Pain is a physical signal from your body telling you that engaging in that painful activity may compromise the functionality of the pained limb/organ. Why don't you keep your hand on fire? It hurts. You don't want it and you'll try to avoid it at all costs. Why do you go to the dentist? It's going to hurt, does it make the dentist immoral? Does it make you immoral? No, you do it to avoid further pain in the future by enduring a little pain now. All in all humans try to minimize pain in their life. It's how we are physically coded in this perceived reality. It has nothing to do with abstract concepts such as morality.
Pain in itself does not have any value from a nihilist point of view. It is there, it hurts, but it's irrelevant whether it hurts or not. That's the nihilistic take. If you say that your god shares the same view, then that would make your god nihilistic too. Would that be a positive or negative thing? Answer: it wouldn't matter, as nothing really does.
After that you go on about humanity and society evolution throughout time and I don't see God's hand in all of this. To me you are just praising humans for their ability to grow. So ye, ok.
28) Why do you need God? Many people do well without believing in it. Are those happy unbelievers the absolute worst for not needing God? And what about those people who believe and find solace in another god such as Allah or Buddha? Again, let's try to look at the whole picture here, let's take into account everyone.
29) How do I take his money? Will some guy offer me money tomorrow?
30)
This is pretty much the law of the fittest. I agree with the view that people who can give more do deserve more, but my view doesn't include any godlike entity in this.
31) To answer your simulation about the crackhead brother: from my point of view, it would have been fair to give both the same amount and then see the responsible brother raise up and be successful and the crackhead to fall down. I'm inclined to think that we deserve what we get.
32) What do you mean with "we lack the authority to do what we want"?
33) About Christ's judgement: what criteria does he use to judge us?
34) The amount of literature that is required to learn all the gospel is titanic. Do I really need to take a theological university course for it? That sounds insane.
1) You are comparing evidence in a court trial vs evidence in science. Do I need to go further? The former is obviously limited as often times you are trying to prove the unprovable, the latter is not confirmed for years until unequivocable proof is shown. Also, some judges may be corrupt and decide a sentence to their liking and you can't help it. They respond to different criteria. In science, even if you wanted to make something false pass as truth, nature will eventually show you otherwise. The same cannot be said in a court.
2) There is no objectivity in what you said, this is why it was disqualified.
3) About biblical answers to questions and evolution and 7 day creation, that logic is backwards. "You can't disprove my god while my god can give you all the answers". Pretty much
4) About the mustard seed of faith, how is that exactly a unit of measure? Are we comparing size? Mass? You know that if you were referring to eg energy, then a mustard seed would be equal to a fuckton of nuclear energy (E = mc2)?
5) Ask, Seek, Knock is your recursive answer. You said I did it on my terms and it didn't work. Then what are his terms?
6) About my uncle: you say that I have a lock on what is eternal and what is not. How do you even know that? And no, his contentment is not offensive. Anyone is free to do what they want with their life.
7) About your dream/revelation: how do you know it wasn't just a dream? I've done all sort of things to summon god, even insulted him, bashed on him, tried to befriend satan to spite him and never had such nightmare. Never ever dreamed about some god entity in 30 years despite putting a lot of work in it (and if you don't know, dreams are a reflection of our subconscious, so you'd expect me to dream about it at some point but nein).
8) About master&servant: if God was anything like the queen or Obama, first of all he would be factual, he would physically exist in this perceived reality. The queen and Obama may ignore me, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. I can see them, if I wanted I could shake hands. Can you say the same for mr God?
9) About science/god/batman: my view of science could be easily equated to most definitions of God laid out there by the many theists. The only difference being that my "god/science" is not merciful/caring/nice but is just neutral and doesn't give a shit. What puzzles me is that theists are convinced that "god/science" is nice and caring and loving.
10) At this point I think you don't even know what infinite means. You've used that term many times in the wrong context. Technically PI is infinite too yet it is finite. An irrational number is infinite as there are many figures after the point, but it's still finite and you can use it in calculations without problems. The assumption of the universe being infinite doesn't stop us from understanding it, so why should god, who is also supposedly infinite, stop us from understanding him/it/her? It's like a self-imposed limitation on your side. Be brave.
11) Following on the above point, if science discovered God why would we be the masters? If I lived in a tyrannical regime and found out what's the tyrant's name and where he lives, it still wouldn't change that I have to serve him or I get slashed. But let's make the opposite example too: why would God require to be superior in order to seek us out? It sounds like a child play "I will play with you only if I get to be the king!". Speak about lowering to our level....
12) If God used man made technology to solve these problems, then indeed there is no need for a God. You are just equating God to humans here. Being above man would mean he can push it further, yet he doesn't. If you know he can do more, then would you mind specifying what exactly he can do more? Or so far there is 0 evidence of the greater feats he did, meaning that so far he didn't do anything that couldn't be brought back to simple man. And to answer your question: if I were God, I wouldn't create anything at all.
13) Ah, so it's not years of studying and practice that let you do operations, it's the hand of God. Sure, and what when doctors make a mistake? God was having a coffee? Has it never crossed your mind that it was your fingers and mind alone that created those two patents? Why must it be some untangible mystical entity?
14) About my auntie, you overlooked a particular: she was suffering during that period. If death just came all of a sudden, then I'd agree with you. Even in my case, if I suddenly had a stroke and died, I'd be fine with that. What's better way to die? But if prior to death I had to suffer for 10-15y and take medicines nonstop, is it still so nice? Sure, death would still be an end to the suffering, but should we consider the 10-15y of suffering as a reward too? Or let's just overlook this particular because it's not convenient? The logic you are using here could be used to also justify the exact opposite of what you are saying in every case.
15) About you standing before God in judgement, I guess it still refers to that dream?
16) If you were a retard as you say and it was God's intervention to have made you the successful man you are today, why doesn't this happen to other people in your same situation? If it was a reproducible phenomenon, then it would be worth investigating it, but if it's an isolated case, isn't it easier to justify with coincidence or simply with the fact that you aren't a retard as you believe? It somehow feels forced to bring in godlike entities to justify your life success. So ye, it boils down to what you think it's more likely: magical being making you successful or you making the right choices at the right times.
17) I had to quote this:
Quote:that's stupid. what constrains a man are his constraints. His limitations. We are all limited, some far more than others. Especially in society. As society is what decides how to measure a man.What a bold statement. That sentence alone helps me better understand all your responses so far.
A man who does not know his station in life rather a man who is not bound by his limitations are quickly knocked down. just look how Christians are generally treated here in a place who prize non christian thought over what is deem 'rational thought.' You can not tell me my constrains are my own when it is you and you peers who determine my place and position based on what I believe?
1) YOU are putting limitations on yourself on your own.
2) Society does not decide anything.
3) Just look at yourself alone, as if you were an hermit: what are your limitations?
I 100% disagree with what you said in that post, but it is a subjective point of view.
18) I read the entire thread where you narrate your story (including the star trek jokes). It is quite a tale, but I'll give you the benefit of doubt that it really happened as you described, however that in my book is still not conclusive demonstration of god's existence. Assuming it all played out like you said it did, it sounds more like a con artist tale than a meeting with an angel. Why do I think like that? Let's play pretend:
Let's pretend that I am a hobo who needs to move from A to C by passing through B. I scout the nearby 7/11 for some potential "investor", and I make up a story of needing a ride to B while putting in some god's stuff argument. If the interlocutor does not fall for it, I move on to the next target. Let's say I finally get someone whose lifestory resonates with my con story: how is that someone supposed to know that I am a con and not an angel? I know I'm not an angel, I tell him I am and he believes it. Depending on how much I ask him, I may have ruined or messed up that man's life and he'll believe it was God.
What differentiate that someone from you? How do you tell one from the other?
19) About your promises, before you said that your success in this reality wasn't the real reward and that you actually had to deal with hardships anyway (heroin addiction of your wife). So what gives? If you are successful it is god keeping his promises, but if you have to endure other hardships then it's because this is not the real reward? Sorry, but it sounds like you are trying to justify everything depending on how it is more convenient depending on the situation.
20) If my happiness was bound to live in misery without arms/legs, I'd rather be "unhappy".
21) Oh oh
Quote:again from the god library.. Our brains are not central processors or independant units. meaning our brains are not the self contain computers we have been taught them to be. our brains are transmitter/receivers. the signals we can monitor are sent and receive from the "cloud" for the lack of a better term.. Maybe matrix would be a better term. In that we are a consciousness that resides in a different dimension that what we see live and experience day to day, we inhabit these bodies as avitar/they are our host. The body consists of a spirit and strength stength being a physical form, and spirit being basic cognitive and primal reactions. our soul is what makes us, us it is our higher reasoning and our consciousness at large this is what resides in the 'cloud' or heavenly dimension. so when we die. our link to the cloud in constantly being updated till we die or till this host body dies, and we wake up from the matrix, and ushered into judgement. As we are "absent from the body and present with the Lord."This is how I pictured it long ago. I was active in another forum back then https://www.psychforums.com/depersonaliz...ml#p916802 , and this was the sketch I drew: https://imgur.com/GcQxzCj
However, this was just an intuition of mine, my own speculation of how it felt like. You can read more about this view of mine on that link I provided. Just to avoid misunderstanding, the "god" I'm referring to in that picture is not the christian god or some other renown god. It's more like I was classifying myself as god.
22) If the hell you describe is the emptiness where Christ/god doesn't love you, then I think I can survive that. I've lived my life by learning from my own experiences AND from other's experiences. I learnt that bonding with your fellow human constitutes a weakness and may hurt in the long run and so I practiced to live happily without anyone's love. Even if tomorrow humanity disappeared and I was the last man standing, I would find something to occupy my time with. Linking back to point 21, this is what makes me feel invincible in this world. In psychology, this is also appointed as dissociation/depersonalization.
23) So our purpose is that of being slaves?
24) So he created us, dropped us in a big world and made us "filter" ourselves so only the elite could go back to the garden. Again, why go through the trouble? Why create adam in the first place? Couldn't he have stayed put and just rest in his garden? It feels like he was bored and decided to create a big number of humans and test them so to see who would be worthy enough to keep in the shelf (garden) and who to leave in the dumpster (earth). What kind of game is that? It sounds like Saw movies.
25) There is a lot of misinterpretation below, so I'll have to quote it directly:
Quote:again the only faith needed Jesus estimates is as small as a mustard seed meaning all you need is the smallest amount to honestly seek out the truth and follow God where he leads. if you can do this one thing He/God promises to literally move mountains of doubt out of your way. This Christ promises to all of us not just me. What other guarantee do you need? what about the guarantee of mini ice age of the 70s and 80s? or in the late 90's global warming or now global climate change, or the guarantee of a hole in the ozone that has been sealed up before our bans on cfc was in full effect? or what about the guarantee of the 1980 that if you ate from the nutritional pyramid you'd live a long and healthy life? (Now the pyramid is the exact opposite) To believe in any of this takes a measure of faith. why because there in lies an unknown or at the very least a unaccountable variable that can indeed falsify every single claim. So then if all things being equal what more faith is required to earnestly seek out the truth in God verse the truth in say the mini ice age? or a hole in the ozone or whatever new the sky is falling 'science' that a tax or a change in product consumption will save is all?1) Global warming has always been a thing since the beginning of times. It's not something that started only recently. Earth is NATURALLY warming up for 2 reasons: the sun getting bigger and therefore getting closer to the earth and the amount of greenhouse pollutants (namely CO2) increasing since forever. Did you know that most of CO2 emissions come from natural sources, such as decomposition of organic bodies and vulcans? Yeah, vulcans spreading their lava and burning km2 of forests produces a huge deal of CO2. Humans surely don't help with their activities, but again keep in mind that earth is naturally warming up on its own.
2) The hole in the ozone is not an actual "hole" that has to be "sealed". Please again, there seems to be a lot of misinformation on your side about the sciency side of things. The hole refers to the layer of ozone getting thinner, not getting actually pierced. That would be equal to have a high powered laser cutting on earth as it spins, it would be devastating lol.
If this was your interpretation of these "prophecies", then I'm only getting further from believing it. Society does speculate on these things, but first of all they are natural phenomenons that have always been at play. Men did worsen the situation, but it was always there.
26) All of the responses that follow after are pretty much based on your personal experience and your view of it. A self fulfilled prophecy for some, or the actual truth of god's existence. As it is a subjective experience, we don't have much say in it. You pretty much see his messages where you feel it, as it is to be expected after feeling changed by this experience. The other response about following god on his terms was already asked before.
27) About morality and pain, what are you even talking about? Pain is a physical signal from your body telling you that engaging in that painful activity may compromise the functionality of the pained limb/organ. Why don't you keep your hand on fire? It hurts. You don't want it and you'll try to avoid it at all costs. Why do you go to the dentist? It's going to hurt, does it make the dentist immoral? Does it make you immoral? No, you do it to avoid further pain in the future by enduring a little pain now. All in all humans try to minimize pain in their life. It's how we are physically coded in this perceived reality. It has nothing to do with abstract concepts such as morality.
Pain in itself does not have any value from a nihilist point of view. It is there, it hurts, but it's irrelevant whether it hurts or not. That's the nihilistic take. If you say that your god shares the same view, then that would make your god nihilistic too. Would that be a positive or negative thing? Answer: it wouldn't matter, as nothing really does.
After that you go on about humanity and society evolution throughout time and I don't see God's hand in all of this. To me you are just praising humans for their ability to grow. So ye, ok.
28) Why do you need God? Many people do well without believing in it. Are those happy unbelievers the absolute worst for not needing God? And what about those people who believe and find solace in another god such as Allah or Buddha? Again, let's try to look at the whole picture here, let's take into account everyone.
29) How do I take his money? Will some guy offer me money tomorrow?
30)
Quote:He gives each according to his ablity which is the heart of fairness.
This is pretty much the law of the fittest. I agree with the view that people who can give more do deserve more, but my view doesn't include any godlike entity in this.
31) To answer your simulation about the crackhead brother: from my point of view, it would have been fair to give both the same amount and then see the responsible brother raise up and be successful and the crackhead to fall down. I'm inclined to think that we deserve what we get.
32) What do you mean with "we lack the authority to do what we want"?
33) About Christ's judgement: what criteria does he use to judge us?
34) The amount of literature that is required to learn all the gospel is titanic. Do I really need to take a theological university course for it? That sounds insane.
