Illegal Immigration

[Brian37]

I live in the "sanctuary state" of California which refuses to aid ICE in apprehending people who are here illegally and actually seems to encourage people to come here illegally. I'm totally in favor of allowing immigration into the US and see our liberal immigration quotas as a positive.  What I don't understand is how we can exist as a nation if we don't have control over who enters the country.  I have a question for those who agree with the state of California and are against prosecuting those who have entered the country illegally or preventing undocumented people from crossing into the country as they wish.  What is your rationale and why is this good for us?

I’m trying to find a way to phrase this that will clearly convey what I think about this. So if I ramble, I apologize.

Our immigration system is deliberately complicated, and simply crossing our southern border at a port of entry is prohibitively difficult for non-US citizens. This is deliberate. People who wish to come in are forced to come through deserts, rivers, and mountains. Thousands die. And these deaths are seen as a positive by policymakers. They see it as a deterrent. Then when the migrants get here they are faced with horrible working conditions, blocked from social services, and mat be separated from their families. And these people STILL want to come here. They are that desperate.

No amount of cracking down on these communities is going to stop the migration. What states like California are doing is wise, IMO. If these communities feel safe calling the cops, then they will be safer. If they don’t, then criminals will exploit these people and hide in these communities.

If stopping this was actually the goal there’s a much easier and more effective way to do it. They come here because there’s work. Well, what if there wasn’t? Companies hire illegals because they’re cheap, they can’t complain about working conditions, and they can’t really negotiate. So let’s say instead of going after desperate people, we fine the companies that hire illegals. Hard. Let’s say $5k per illegal employee per day.

(Incidentally the reason we don’t do this is because businesses don’t want this. It gives American workers more bargaining power and certain administrations didn’t like that)

My bet is if you did this a lot of illegal immigrants would choose to leave or begin applying for legal status (which we really should make a path for). I would also bet that businesses would start pushing hard for comprehensive immigration reform.

Um no, the myth of the river/desert crossing being a majority is just that, a myth. Yes those things happen, but are not the majority of entry.

Most migrants who try to get in wait at the border seeking asylum. 

Most migrants are those whom overstay their visas and or asylum processing if denied once in.

Most of illegal entries also happen at established checkpoints.

But most importantly with or without papers, most migrants are not violent.

A migrant who dies trying to make an attempt to sneak in without going through process, is more likely to die in the trunk of a car or van or 18 wheeler.

But I do agree with most of what you are saying.


This authoritarian hyper nationalistic approach of "crack down" is inhuman, and for those living in the shadows, the "zero tolerance" actually creates a bigger breading ground for crime because if you fear getting deported, even if you are not violent, you are far less likely to report the violent individuals who do need to get deported. 

But as far as punishing companies who hire undocumented workers, I don't think that is a good idea either. They are still human beings, like you and me. I think a better approach rather than punish the worker, because even if you are fining the company, if they get caught, that worker is out of a job, and nobody benefits by having another fellow human not being able to feed themselves. That also goes even for people who are born and live here. The more stable everyone is the less they cost tax payers. And it is a myth that migrants do not pay taxes. They pay taxes every time they buy something, just like you and me. Suddenly remove 11 million migrants, that is a boatload of lost revenue. I would be for fining a company for not paying a minimum wage though. 

Instead, we need to foster a western consensus of nations who create incentives to reform the countries they are coming from. Border security is one thing, how we do it matters. Using fear and bigotry which is what 45 is doing, is cruel and the talk of authoritarians. We can have border security by adding more agents, drones and sensors. But at the same time provide stability to those already here, and work on long term economics to create stability in the countries they come from.