RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 9, 2019 at 11:27 pm
(This post was last modified: January 9, 2019 at 11:47 pm by Bucky Ball.)
(January 6, 2019 at 3:07 am)Der/die AtheistIn Wrote: Many moderates believe there is no Hell, the story of Adam and Eve is purely metaphorical and that Jesus doesn't suffer for our sins. Then WTF did he let himself get killed? According to the story he had divine powers and would've been able to escape, but chose not to. Some say he didn't fight, because he was peaceful, but if he had magic powers, he could've protected himself without hurting anybody. If he wanted to just teach some lessons, why didn't he leave right away or use some invisible shield or something? Why did he come on earth in the first place? Why didn't he use telepathy to communicate? Why did he leave?
Do these moderates actually believe that Jesus was just human?
There is another thing, my parents are moderates themselves and raised me christian, yet they never told me they interpretation to why Jesus let himself getting killed. They didn't tell me about many concepts of this religion that they believe in. Why? Having a wrong opinion is one thing, but having literally no structure when teaching said opinion to your only child is fucking ridiculous.
There are many layers of traditions and historical facts which developed over decades and centuries, in the establishment of what eventually came to be called "Christianity".
Originally there were many "Christianities", (see Ehrman's book on the subject). There was no orthodoxy at the beginning. You can actually watch as Christianity was developed by the "Church Fathers" in the councils ... as they argued and voted on things (non-unanimously). The proceedings of the councils are on Fordham University's web site.
If any of the origin stories have even a kernel of truth, and in fact the Romans executed him, then the reason seems to be that he caused a ruckus in the temple, (the "overturning" of the money-changer tables).
During the Pax Romana, in occupied cities, execution (without trial) was a "standing order" (no need to get an individual order) to execute anyone who was deemed to be a "trouble-maker". The economy of the city of Jerusalem was entirely built on the temple and religious tourism/ festival celebrations. Jews came from all over to Jerusalem to BUY animals to sacrifice, and PAY the priests to do the sacrificing. It was a HUGE industry. The animals had to be raised, fed, transported, and bought. ALL of Jerusalem depended on the religious tourism. Jerusalem was also an occupied city. Roman coinage/currency was of course in use, BUT it was not acceptable to use Roman money to buy anything in the temple, as it was "tainted". It had to be converted to Hebrew money ... it was ritually necessary for the Jews. Then along comes (if the story is true) this wandering preacher who poses a threat to civil order, and causes a ruckus in the temple over a HUGELY important part of the city's economy. Money. He was summarily executed by standing order, for being a trouble-maker.
The rest was made up.
The role of a Jewish messiah, (the "anointed one") was never (ever) to be a substitutionary atonement for sin. Christians (later) turned it into that. The very early Christians were apocalyptic Jews. They thought the end times were immanent, (including Paul and Jesus). Even the apostles thought so. They asked Jesus in Acts (1:6) "Wilt Thou O Lord at this time reestablish the kingdom to Israel ?" Nothing about sin and atonement. When the young man in Matthew asked Jesus what he had to do to gain eternal life, the answer he was given was "keep the commandments" ... NOT "just you wait, I'll be dying for you".
The temple was destroyed ... the end times did not come. Then all of Jerusalem was destroyed after the bar Kochba revolt (132-136 CE) and still no end-times. The world-view of the Jews changed radically in this period (the Diaspora) when things did not go well or according to what they expected. Things were ripe for new cults and different understandings.
As far as "the son of god" goes, it's a corruption of the Hebrew understanding of that term.
For a Jew, a "son of god" was simply a pious/righteous man.
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articl...son-of-god
Again, Christianity corrupted the original meaning of that general honorific term from Jewish culture.
Every religion is true one way or another. It is true when understood metaphorically. But when it gets stuck in its own metaphors, interpreting them as facts, then you are in trouble. - Joseph Campbell ![Popcorn Popcorn](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist
![Popcorn Popcorn](https://atheistforums.org/images/smilies/popcorn.gif)
Militant Atheist Commie Evolutionist