RE: What do moderates think Jesus died for?
January 13, 2019 at 8:15 am
(This post was last modified: January 13, 2019 at 8:21 am by Acrobat.)
There’s a variety of orthodox view of Atonement. Eastern Orthodox subscribe to a moral view, that Christ died as moral model for the rest of us. Secondly the conception of original sin, fallen world need not be statement about how the world ended up this way, but the way the world is, regardless if it was this way from the beginning or proceeding some events at the start of history. The world in a variety of religions, appears broken, off the mark, not as whole or as good as it ought to be.
Here’s one particular renowned catholic theologian Herbert McCabe’s expression of the meaning of Christ’s death:
“‘The story of Jesus is what the eternal trinitarian life of God looks like when it is projected on to the screen of history, and this means on the screen not only of human history but of sinful human history.
The obedience of Jesus to the Father, his obedience to his mission, is just what the eternal procession of the Son from the Father appears as in history. His obedience consists in nothing else but being in history, human.
Jesus did nothing but be the Son as human; that his life was so colorful, eventful, and tragic is simply because of what being human involves in our world.
We for the most part shy off being human because if we are really human we will be crucified.
If we didn’t know that before, we know it now; the crucifixion of Jesus was simply the dramatic manifestation of the sort of world we have made, the showing up of the world, the unmasking of what we call, traditionally, original sin.
There is no need whatever for peculiar theories about the Father deliberately putting his Son to death.
There is no need for any theory about the death of Jesus.
It doesn’t need any explanation once you know that he was human in our world.
Jesus died in obedience to the Father’s will simply in the sense that the Father will the Son to be human in our world.’
How about belief in a creative order, a reality that posses objective moral values, a transcendent moral reality. That the wrong I perceive exists independently of myself and other such the yellow of my wife’s dress, or the existence of other minds.
Would this also fall into a belief in invisible donkeys, and fairies?
Here’s one particular renowned catholic theologian Herbert McCabe’s expression of the meaning of Christ’s death:
“‘The story of Jesus is what the eternal trinitarian life of God looks like when it is projected on to the screen of history, and this means on the screen not only of human history but of sinful human history.
The obedience of Jesus to the Father, his obedience to his mission, is just what the eternal procession of the Son from the Father appears as in history. His obedience consists in nothing else but being in history, human.
Jesus did nothing but be the Son as human; that his life was so colorful, eventful, and tragic is simply because of what being human involves in our world.
We for the most part shy off being human because if we are really human we will be crucified.
If we didn’t know that before, we know it now; the crucifixion of Jesus was simply the dramatic manifestation of the sort of world we have made, the showing up of the world, the unmasking of what we call, traditionally, original sin.
There is no need whatever for peculiar theories about the Father deliberately putting his Son to death.
There is no need for any theory about the death of Jesus.
It doesn’t need any explanation once you know that he was human in our world.
Jesus died in obedience to the Father’s will simply in the sense that the Father will the Son to be human in our world.’
(January 10, 2019 at 2:48 pm)Jehanne Wrote:(January 10, 2019 at 11:23 am)tackattack Wrote: I never said there was a preternatural state of perfection. There was a preternatural state with volition living in a place of perfection. It chose sinfulness which continues till this day. Sinfulness doesn't separate God from us, because he can't be offended, it separates us from Him. You're entitled to your opinions that it is outdated, childish and non-sense.
God could convince me that he exists; I have a perspective that is sometimes referred to as "non-resistive, non-belief". If God truly exists, I would be delighted to meet his/her/its acquaintance.
But, I really believe that God, god(s), etc., are in the same category as fairies, unicorns and invisible talking donkeys, and I see no reason to waste what little and precious time that I have in this life, which is the only life that I have to live.
How about belief in a creative order, a reality that posses objective moral values, a transcendent moral reality. That the wrong I perceive exists independently of myself and other such the yellow of my wife’s dress, or the existence of other minds.
Would this also fall into a belief in invisible donkeys, and fairies?