How to discuss religion with believers?

[polymath257]

I think you need to do your division again here. One atom of gold would correspond to about 6-7 'molecules of 'air', not 30 or 90. Let's be generous and use the 7:1 ratio.

Well, shall we compute? One mole of gas at standard temperature and pressure occupies a volume of .0224 cubic meters. So a cubic meter of gas has 1/.0224 = 44.5 moles of gas, which in the case of air is 29*44.5 grams, which is about 1300 grams, or 1.3 kilograms (just under 3 pounds).

Now, what is the volume of air in a typical house? Well, If we assume a 2000 square foot floor plan and 10 ft ceilings, that makes for about 566 cubic meters, so the mass of air in such a house would be about 1.3*566, or about 750 kilograms.
So, yes, this is under a ton. It would take a largish house to have a ton of air in it. 15 foot ceilings and 2000 square feet would be plenty, though.

Most people are surprised by how much the mass of air actually is in even fairly small volumes. Ordinary rooms can have hundreds of pounds of air.

here's where your confusion is in the conversion of mols to atoms. The point of the conversation was to witness God Change air to gold on a atomic level, so rather than convert I used the atomic weight of the atoms themselves. So to make a ton of gold even at a 7:1 ratio (your numbers not mine) you need 7 tons of air, as by your numbers gold is 7 times heavier than air. 

The point is it takes a larger than a 1:1 exchange to make gold from air. you will need way way more air molecules of air to make one u of gold. so if you had a ton of air in your house you are 6 tons short of making one ton of gold using your numbers.

You guys kill me. you make yourself look stupid for the sake of trying to show me up on a math issue when you miss the whole point of the problem, and screw up your own solution.

No, this is wrong. it is the *mass* that is important here, not the atoms. You may one atom of gold for about 7 molecules of air. But the mass of the two is the same. All that is required is to rearrange the protons and neutrons and convert a few protons to neutrons. The number of electrons will be correct.

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Which is the number that polymath found. However, he too was incorrect, as what you both were comparing here are the moles, not the masses. What you have to understand is that a mole is just a way to number things: 14 balls of 1 gram are equal to 1 ball of 14 g. A mole represents that "14". This is the example I typically give to my students, which usually is effective:

Actually, if you look at my calculation, I used the masses, not the number of moles. The point is that I calculated the mass of a cubic meter of air and used that to determine the mass of the air in a house (approximately). I never actually used the 6.84 number.